Speaker 1:
From the library of the New York Stock Exchange at the corner of Wall and Broad streets in New York City, you're inside the ICE House, our podcast from Intercontinental Exchange on markets, leadership and vision in global business; the dream drivers that have made the NYSE an indispensable institution of global growth for over 225 years.
Speaker 1:
Each week, we feature stories of those who hatch plans, create jobs and harness the engine of capitalism, right here, right now at the NYSE and at ICE's 12 exchanges and six clearing houses around the world.
Speaker 1:
And now, welcome inside the ICE House.
Theresa Deluca:
FedEx, the Home Depot, Nike and Salesforce. What do these companies have in common? Yes, those are NYSE ticker symbols FDX, HD, NKE, and CRM, but more so, these companies all began with one great idea that solved a need.
Theresa Deluca:
When you hear the now famous stories of how these companies seemed to miraculously get off the ground, it seems like things really just fell into place. Did the company founders all just get really lucky?
Theresa Deluca:
No. Not only did these founders all have that one great idea, they had the passion, perseverance and belief in their product to make their ideas into fruition. Life is short and you're dead an awfully long time. So it's best to spend the short time that we do have doing something you love.
Theresa Deluca:
That, dear listeners, is where our focus begins today.
Theresa Deluca:
So many of us have been there, myself included; unsure of what it is we really want to spend our lives doing. What is it that gets us up in the morning? What is it that we're even good at?
Theresa Deluca:
For the guest sitting across from me, her mother put those very words to her in a slightly different way; "If it was your birthday and you could spend the day doing whatever it was that you wanted, what would you be doing?"
Theresa Deluca:
Her response? "Well, I'd go to the makeup counters at Marshall Field's and play with makeup." So the next step? Go to beauty school.
Theresa Deluca:
Well, wait a minute. Beauty school just doesn't seem to be the right fit, but perhaps creating your own college major, studying theatrical makeup at Emerson College in Boston, Massachusetts, is exactly the path you need.
Theresa Deluca:
And it just so happens that the pattern of creating something that didn't exist to fit your needs is a theme that our guest today, beauty industry titan, Bobbi Brown, has turned into her empire.
Theresa Deluca:
Our conversation with entrepreneur, makeup artist, speaker, author, and influencer, Bobbi Brown, in one minute.
Speaker 3:
And now a word from Chaim Indig, CEO of Phreesia, NYSC ticker PHR.
Chaim Indig:
We are the market leader in patient intake, which is automating the digital front door for the patient experience, helping providers improve the healthcare experience for all their patients.
Chaim Indig:
We chose the New York Stock Exchange because we felt like it was a great platform to list our company to the world. And it's been a great journey, and one that I look forward to continue to do.
Chaim Indig:
Phreesia; listed on the New York Stock Exchange.
Theresa Deluca:
Joining me inside the library of the New York Stock Exchange is Bobbi Brown, world-renowned makeup artist, bestselling author, noted speaker and serial entrepreneur.
Theresa Deluca:
While we're here in Downtown Manhattan on the corner of Wall and Broad streets, our story begins 12 miles west of New York City in the New Jersey suburb of Montclair. If you've never been, I recommend a trip for great food, shopping and unmatched views of the New York City skyline.
Theresa Deluca:
Now I might be a little biased. You see, I too grew up in the Northern New Jersey suburbs and I was lucky enough to play many a high school lacrosse game with the New York City skyline in the background.
Theresa Deluca:
Now, around the time of those high school lacrosse games came the rite of passage that is wearing makeup. And as Bruce Springsteen is to Asbury Park, Bobbi Brown is to Montclair, New Jersey, at least in my book.
Theresa Deluca:
When I got permission from my mother to wear makeup, we headed straight for the Bobbi Brown Cosmetics counter at Nordstrom. Why? Because it was no makeup makeup.
Theresa Deluca:
"Women want to look and feel like themselves, only prettier and more confident," was and is Bobbi's philosophy. It was a message that both my mother and myself could certainly get behind.
Theresa Deluca:
I should add, Bobbi, that growing up in New Jersey with a mother who is 5'1, brown hair and glasses, I thought to myself, "Bobbi Brown is a lot like us. She must be Italian."
Bobbi Brown:
Jewish. Same thing.
Theresa Deluca:
Well, perhaps not that last part, but Bobbi's relatability is something that women across the country and across the world must have felt too.
Theresa Deluca:
In 1991, when bright colors and stark red lips were in vogue, Bobbi Brown introduced 10 natural shade lipsticks named Bobbi Brown Essentials, which changed the cosmetic industry forever. Lipstick was just the beginning of what would become an entire cosmetics line.
Theresa Deluca:
In 1995, Bobbi Brown Cosmetics was acquired by the Estée Lauder companies, NYSC ticker symbol EL, where Bobbi served as Chief Creative Officer and built Bobbi Brown Cosmetics into a billion dollar brand.
Theresa Deluca:
Bobbi left her eponymously named Bobbi Brown Cosmetics in October, 2016. Did she sail off into the sunset? Think again.
Theresa Deluca:
Grab a cup of coffee, dear listeners. You're going to need it if you have any hope of keeping up with Bobbi Brown's entrepreneurial endeavors.
Theresa Deluca:
Bobbi Brown, welcome inside the ICE House.
Bobbi Brown:
Aw, thank you. That was just amazing. That was amazing. What an introduction.
Theresa Deluca:
It's been a few years since you've been here on the trading floor.
Bobbi Brown:
It has been a few years. I've been here a few times.
Theresa Deluca:
Well, I want to go back even further, outside of New York, outside of the Stock Exchange. I want to go back to Chicago in the sixties, seventies and eighties, where you spent your weekends helping your grandfather, Cadillac Sam Shatten.
Theresa Deluca:
What lessons in business did you learn from him?
Bobbi Brown:
I learned so much from Papa Sam. Papa Sam was this amazing little man. I think he was about 5'2, 5'4, or something like that. Cadillac Sam came from Russia, started selling papers, and all of a sudden, somehow miraculously had a car dealership.
Bobbi Brown:
So what I would do with Papa Sam on the weekends, I would stuff his envelopes, which were marketing, really, brochures of Papa Sam and his grandchildren. And he called everyone friend and doc. And I just really learned, I guess, the work ethic. And I guess I learned marketing from Papa Sam.
Theresa Deluca:
Were your parents entrepreneurial too?
Bobbi Brown:
My mom; a stay at home mom. Very creative, but very, very present and involved in things. My dad; an attorney who practiced in creative things on the weekend. So he had his own business, but I wouldn't say they were totally entrepreneurial.
Theresa Deluca:
When you first started school, you were at the University of Arizona.
Bobbi Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Theresa Deluca:
And after I think that first semester, or maybe the first year, you said to your mom, "You know, I don't think this is for me. I want to drop out." And she said, "No, you've got to keep going."
Theresa Deluca:
Looking at that today, what advice do you have for young people who might say, "I'm not sure of this college thing, and maybe I want to just strike out on my own right now?"
Bobbi Brown:
Well, first of all, you have to go to college, if you can. Even if it's just a local school, if you could afford it.
Bobbi Brown:
I tell every kid that I mentor, "You know why you have to go to college? When you're at a party or an interview, and someone says, 'Where'd you go to school?', you have to answer. You just have to say, 'I went to ... '"
Bobbi Brown:
It doesn't matter where you went to. Some of the smartest people that come out of the best schools are not the smartest people. And some of the other people that are incredibly smart that I've met came from local schools around the country. It's just really important to go to college.
Theresa Deluca:
After college, you moved to New York City and started scouring the yellow pages for opportunities to do makeup.
Theresa Deluca:
After seeing these flashy, unnatural lipsticks and neon pink blushes, you had an idea for makeup that frankly just made sense. Tell me how you began creating those first 10 lipsticks.
Bobbi Brown:
Well, I wanted to be a freelance makeup artist. I wanted to work with models in the magazines. And when I first started to get hired, it was the eighties and the makeup was really artificial.
Bobbi Brown:
I'll never forget doing Jerry Hall's makeup, who was then married to Mick Jagger. And literally I had to contour her whole face and overline her lips. I thought she looked terrible. And I also don't think I did a good job. She was so kind and took the mirror and actually remade herself up.
Bobbi Brown:
I watched and I said, "Okay." I realized, "I'm not that kind of makeup artist."
Bobbi Brown:
So I started working with models and actually blending the makeup, working really hard at blending. And when I was already a working makeup artist, I realized, everything in my kit, I had to fix. I said, "This is really stupid. There's no foundation that matches the skin. There's no lipstick that actually looks like lips." And so I made it myself.
Theresa Deluca:
You were in talks with Bergdorf Goodman to sell your lipstick, but they kind of backed out at the last second. And so you did something interesting in kind of a marketing sense, to say, "Well, Saks is interested."
Theresa Deluca:
Tell us about that.
Bobbi Brown:
Well, it's so amazing looking back and seeing the things that really changed the history.
Bobbi Brown:
So yes, I had met a chemist who made the lipsticks for me. I had met a really nice woman that was a cosmetics buyer at Bergdorf who said she wanted to take the lipsticks. And then I was working with Saks as a makeup artist, and I got a call from Bergdorf that said, "I'm so sorry. We have too many things this season. We can't take it."
Bobbi Brown:
My stomach sank, and I called her back. And in between the phone call, the people that I worked with at Saks, which were just the creative team, said, "Oh my God, don't give this to Bergdorf. Give it to us." I said, "No, I already promised Bergdorf." But when the Bergdorf called me back and said, "We can't take it," I said, "It's okay because I'm with Saks and they want it." She said, "I'll call you back."
Bobbi Brown:
I don't know how I even thought of that.
Theresa Deluca:
You've had so many once in a lifetime experiences that I've heard you mention on your podcast or on different interviews, from meeting President Obama in the White House, to doing Patti Scialfa's makeup for the 12-12 concert, or dancing with Flo Rida on stage.
Theresa Deluca:
When you look back at the company that you founded and just all these experiences that you had, what are you most proud of?
Bobbi Brown:
I know it's not going to be a surprise to people that know me; I am most proud of my three children, my happy marriage of 31 years. And then I'm proud of not just creating a makeup company, but I think I really helped women feel good about themselves and really kind of gave women permission to be themselves.
Bobbi Brown:
So those are all the things I'm proud of.
Theresa Deluca:
I mean, even, I think, for me, when my mom took me to that first beauty counter at 15 or 16, I think that's a very fragile state to be in, but I don't think I'll ever forget having the makeup artist do my makeup with Bobbi Brown Cosmetics, and as a 16 year old, say, "I can look like this?"
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah. I mean, I honestly worked really hard training my artists to not make someone up and tell them there's something wrong with them.
Theresa Deluca:
Right.
Bobbi Brown:
"Your eyes are too small, your nose is too big."
Bobbi Brown:
That's not what makeup was about to me. That's what makeup was about when I was a teenager. And I realized that, if you point out what's beautiful on them and they start seeing it, it's magic and it really feels good. And it's not good to just care so much about the way you look. It honestly makes a difference. I don't care who you are; man, woman: everyone wants to feel good.
Theresa Deluca:
And I think even for parents, for mothers, that they can go someplace and say, you know, "Somebody who can help my daughter feel better about herself and not, 'You have to contour, you have to pluck your eyebrows a certain way', is extremely powerful.
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah. Or, "You have to look like the super models."
Theresa Deluca:
Right.
Bobbi Brown:
You know, I've worked with women who have gone through cancer and chemo, and the makeup, they always tell me, is so healing to them.
Theresa Deluca:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Bobbi Brown:
I worked with widows of the World Trade, which was the hardest thing I ever did in my life. I mean, I stood there sobbing in front of all these women holding babies. And they would say to me, "You don't understand; even a few minutes of feeling good is part of the healing.
Theresa Deluca:
Back when you started, words like Series A investment round or venture capital weren't part of the everyday vernacular.
Theresa Deluca:
You and your husband funded the company. Was there ever any concern that this wouldn't work out or that funding it yourself would prove problematic?
Bobbi Brown:
I have the most bizarre personality trait. I am really naive. I just don't think something is not going to work out. And if it doesn't, I'll figure out how to do something else. So I was never worried.
Bobbi Brown:
And honestly, we spent our last $10,000 that we had in the bank. My husband was in real estate. The market crashed. I was a working makeup artist. I had one child at home. I was pregnant with my first when I had the idea for the company. We had no idea. You know, my father asked if we needed any money. We said no. And we never took a nickel, which is bizarre, especially in today's world.
Theresa Deluca:
As I mentioned in the introduction, some of the most successful companies, like the Home Depot or FedEx, have incredible backstories. And it's easy to think that things just kind of fell into place for them, that you got the right phone call or the right person stepped in at the right time.
Theresa Deluca:
But one thing that I think you've said is that you talk to so many people and you just meet a lot of people and you're nice to them. One of the main things you said is it even landed you on The Today Show.
Theresa Deluca:
What happened with that?
Bobbi Brown:
Well, I was doing a book tour; my first book. I've written nine books, and I don't know how to type. So that kind of explains a lot about me.
Bobbi Brown:
So I was doing a book tour in Florida, and they kind of weren't paying attention to me. It was Neumann Marcus in a circle, and they were eating. There was a lot of forks moving around. I felt like one of those comedians where no one was listening.
Bobbi Brown:
But afterwards, I said, "Any questions?" And there was a little, I mean, she must have been 4'8, woman in her seventies or eighties that asked me a question. I went over, I grabbed her hand, I answered the question. And she said, "Honey, are you Jewish?" And I said, "I am." She said, "I've seen you on The Today Show, and I love watching ... " I'd been on once. And she said, "Is there anything else in your career you'd want to do?" And I said, "Yes, I'd love to be a regular on The Today Show." She said, "Honey, Jeff Zucker is my grandson."
Bobbi Brown:
And that's how I got on The Today Show.
Theresa Deluca:
That's such a cool story. My first job out of college, I was a page at NBC.
Bobbi Brown:
Ah.
Theresa Deluca:
So The Today Show will forever have a very special place in my heart.
Bobbi Brown:
Aww. Yeah.
Theresa Deluca:
I think for young people today with an idea who think, you know, "This could be the next best thing," but they're too scared or nervous to get started, do you think it's easier now with social media, with the internet, with so many different ways of connecting with people, or do you think it's kind of harder because there are so many people trying to do it?
Bobbi Brown:
I think it's easier. Because we didn't have Google. I opened up the yellow pages. Like I couldn't even research where to do certain things. So today, it's much easier. You could talk to someone in China to get something made. You can ask any kind of influencer any question. You could do anything. You just need to be simply smart.
Bobbi Brown:
Now, simply smart to me is a little bit more emotional intelligence than book smart. Sometimes some of the smartest people that used to work for me, who had ridiculous resumes and amazing degrees, honestly, by the time they were able to get a product off the market, I was bored with it already.
Bobbi Brown:
That was, to me, a problem working inside a big brand. It's really important to be able to move quickly on your feet, to figure out how to tell people about what you're doing, and how to make something that people want that's better than what's out there.
Theresa Deluca:
I had a teacher once tell me, "It's not IQ, it's 'I can.'"
Bobbi Brown:
True. Totally true.
Theresa Deluca:
After the break, we'll hear from Bobbi on what happened when she made the decision to step down from her role as Chief Creative Officer of Bobbi Brown Cosmetics.
Speaker 3:
And now a word from John Berger, president and CEO of Sunnova, NYSE ticker NOVA.
John Berger:
We're a solar company. We're out there to bring solar to every home in the country.
John Berger:
We have such a vast market that remains untapped. I think it's less than 3% of the market of homes in the United States. And so there's just so much potential.
John Berger:
The New York Stock Exchange is the home of capitalism. It's just where the action happens. No matter where you are in the world, all eyes are on the New York Stock Exchange.
John Berger:
Sunnova; now listed on the New York Stock Exchange.
Theresa Deluca:
Back now with Bobbi Brown.
Theresa Deluca:
As I mentioned in your introduction, you left Bobbi Brown Cosmetics three years ago this month. Since then, you've launched justbobbi.com, a lifestyle platform for all things wellness, beauty, travel and storytelling; Evolution 18: Beauty From The Inside Out; beauty inspired products supporting healthy hair, skin and a youthful glow, available at Walmart, Kohl's and direct to consumer; you host a podcast yourself, Long Story Short with Bobbi Brown, which is part of Gallery Media Group; you opened The George, which is a boutique luxury hotel in Montclair, New Jersey; you run 18 Label Studios, a full service film and photography studio; and you've also returned to being a makeup artist just in the very spare time that you have, I'm sure.
Theresa Deluca:
So I want to talk about all these different things and kind of how they've all come to be, how you just started rolling one thing into another.
Theresa Deluca:
But before we jump in there, what was it like leaving Bobbi Brown Cosmetics, you know, getting off the elevator that last day and looking into the future?
Bobbi Brown:
Well, I stayed as an employee for 22 years. My husband and I sold the company after four to five years, which was unbelievable, and I think unheard of. I stayed as an employee for 22 years, because for about 20 of the years, I thought I still owned the company. I pretty much called the shots. I worked really closely with, anyone I had to, to figure out how to get things done. I have this focus when I want something and I don't let go when I believe in something.
Bobbi Brown:
And the last couple years were not easy. You know, sometimes you realize you're not the boss anymore; other times you realize that you're really frustrated.
Bobbi Brown:
And honestly, it was my 89 year old aunt that said, "All I do is hear you complain, and it's time." And you know what? It was time.
Bobbi Brown:
So it was not easy. I didn't know it was going to happen the day it did. It did. I went down on the elevator. And the most amazing thing in the whole world was all the stress that I felt the past year or two just disappeared.
Bobbi Brown:
But then all of a sudden, I had a panic; "Oh my God, what's my driver going to do? And what about all the girls that come to my house for lip gloss on Halloween?"
Bobbi Brown:
So those were my first two thoughts.
Theresa Deluca:
And I heard you say in an interview that you wish almost that you had left a little earlier, you know, you had done it sooner. And in those years when you felt in your gut that something wasn't right, that maybe you weren't the boss anymore, decisions were being made that you didn't agree with, in terms of getting that early thought, you know, "I should go," or, "This isn't right anymore," but you stayed, you know, what was it that kept you staying? Was it kind of fear of the unknown, or maybe, "What would people think?", or, "Is this the right decision?"
Bobbi Brown:
No, I'm not a fearful person about things like that. And even up until the very end, I literally had this roll of scotch tape, not physically, but mentally, on my wrist, and I would go to work and try to fix things. I really thought, "Oh, I got this. The economy's bad. We could do that. Oh, that's not working. We could do that." We had no money to advertise Kate Upton; "Guess what? We'll do a Facebook Live." That's how my mind operates.
Bobbi Brown:
So, no, even though things were really rough, I thought I could still fix things if they let me fix things.
Bobbi Brown:
And I realized I didn't have the power anymore, and it was just time to go.
Bobbi Brown:
So my first reaction was like, "Oh shit, now what am I going to do?" And one thing you left out; the first thing I had this opportunity for is, a friend of mine who owns the parent company of Lord & Taylor and Saks offered me the Just Bobbi shops. And I said, "Okay."
Bobbi Brown:
Because look, I am not someone that knows how to sit still. I don't play golf, I don't play tennis. I'm not a lady that lunches and I can only exercise so many hours in a day. And so I like to try things I don't have a clue what I'm doing.
Theresa Deluca:
Well, that actually ties into my next question, because last night I was on justbobbi.com, and one of the things that I thought was really cool ... I mean, I like the blog posts, I think they're very insightful, but I love to shop.
Bobbi Brown:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Theresa Deluca:
And so when I went on your curated picks on justbobbi.com and saw I could get sneakers that maybe Bobbi likes or I could look at all these different things that you might have recommended, I thought that was really cool to know that, you know, somebody might have tried these or you might like it, or you had an experience with it.
Theresa Deluca:
And have it all right at my fingertips instead of kind of having to search all over the interwebs for a new pair of sneakers or for a beautiful lipstick or something was really cool.
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah. Well, which is why I am a fanatic about being authentic. Like I won't let someone else do a list. I have to do it myself.
Bobbi Brown:
And one of our best performing pieces we did were when I did a study of the perfect white T-shirt. And my favorite one was a Hanes T-shirt, size large or extra large, boys; fits me perfectly. By far the best T-shirt.
Theresa Deluca:
So how did the idea for justbobbi.com come around?
Bobbi Brown:
Well, when I was still at the brand, a lot of the things that I needed to do to keep me interested and energized, and also invigorate the brand because, you know, there's so much competition, especially at the end, I had an opportunity to create a beauty magazine for Yahoo. So they came to me with this opportunity.
Bobbi Brown:
And of course, everybody said, "You can't do that. You have a full time job." So I pretty much begged and stamped my feet, whichever, I begged and I stamped my feet, and they allowed me to do it.
Bobbi Brown:
And it was an incredible experience, being an Editor in Chief of this digital magazine. I really did it so my kids would say, "Mom, that's cool," but I enjoyed it. It was fun.
Bobbi Brown:
And so I knew the power and I also knew how it fulfills me, creating content and teaching and visuals and words. So I did it when I left the brand. I just started justbobbi.
Theresa Deluca:
And I know on justbobbi.com, there have been blog posts from you that offer tips. I think you said in the month of October, you know, "Go for a walk around the neighborhood, see the leaves, try a new gym class," something like that, where you are offering those wellness tips.
Theresa Deluca:
And being a serial entrepreneur, the latest, and I guess last, book that you had published is Beauty from the Inside Out, which I think is a great name.
Theresa Deluca:
And when you went back after leaving Bobbi Brown Cosmetics, you went to school. So tell me a little bit about that and getting your certificate as a health coach.
Bobbi Brown:
I've been someone that has either been on a diet or tried a new wellness plan my entire life. And I realized that nothing is a magic bullet, nothing is a magic pill, but the healthier I am, the better I live my life, the better I feel, and ultimately, the better I look.
Bobbi Brown:
You know, I'm 62 years old now. I don't worry as much as I did when I was in my thirties and forties about being perfect, which is a really nice thing to look forward to, but my interest in how to feel better and look better is definitely there.
Bobbi Brown:
And my sister had gone through the program at the Institute of Integrative Nutrition. It's an online program. It's fascinating. You learn from all these experts. And I had no idea what I was going to do with it; I just always wanted to do it.
Bobbi Brown:
So I completed my degree. I'm very proud of it. And it led me, accidentally, like everything in my life has, to create Evolution 18.
Bobbi Brown:
Basically, QVC reached out to me when they heard I left the brand and said, "We don't care what you put your name on. You want to do a line of golf shoes, we'll support you." And we had a meeting and I basically talked about the health and wellness, and they said, "Yes, we have an opportunity."
Bobbi Brown:
And so they got me in touch with a company that does vitamin manufacturing that I already had a meeting with, because I had the idea already. And we have this brand that launched on QVC, then direct to consumer. Then Walmart came to us and said, "What would you do for us?" So we did a simpler, more cost-effective, directed line.
Bobbi Brown:
And again, it's a line of supplements. I believe in supplements that's not going to make you healthy, but it helps increase collagen in your skin, hydration. I created a powder that gives you energy in the afternoon. It's chocolate and it's got all the right things to fuel your brain and keep you full. Then I created another powder, a vanilla powder that you have at night that calms you down, and also will take away your sweet tooth for 60 calories.
Bobbi Brown:
So to me, a lot of the things I do are things that I do for me, but I know that, you know, just like someone wants to know what sneakers I wear, they have the same issues that I do.
Theresa Deluca:
Sounds delicious.
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah.
Theresa Deluca:
I'm definitely going to have to give it a try.
Theresa Deluca:
The name Evolution 18 ... We have 18 Label Studios. Is there anything with the 18? And then also, did you come up with the Evolution part?
Bobbi Brown:
My umbrella company is called Beauty Evolution, which is the umbrella brand. We don't use it on anything, it's not trademarked, but it's just our beauty evolution. I just think we're always evolving. And I just love evolution, and I think that everybody needs to constantly look at themselves and evolve into being better, the next step.
Bobbi Brown:
So Evolution 18 came from the address. And 18 also means life in Hebrew. So it just sounded good.
Bobbi Brown:
So Evolution 18.
Theresa Deluca:
There also seems to be a growing push in the makeup industry for clean beauty, which I'm a huge supporter of, whether it be makeup, creams, serums with natural and organic ingredients.
Theresa Deluca:
I listened to your interview yesterday with Elvis Duran. And it's so funny because, growing up, I heard Elvis Duran on The Z Morning Zoo for years on Z100, but he's still kicking, still funny.
Bobbi Brown:
Oh, he's amazing.
Theresa Deluca:
But on the discussion yesterday, I know you were talking to him about Evolution 18, and you said that our skin is an organ. And I know that Gwyneth Paltrow has also been a big advocate of this with the Goop products and finding things that worked for her and worked for her kids.
Theresa Deluca:
So after years of people slathering on products without really knowing what's going into their skin, what's going into their pores, or what they're putting on their lips, what's the biggest advice you have when it comes to finding products that are healthy for you? I mean, what do you look for?
Bobbi Brown:
Well, I mean, I have to be honest, all the years of creating the products for Bobbi Brown, it was not up front and center about this health and wellness and all the ingredients. It started coming pretty loudly.
Bobbi Brown:
So for me, I first made sure that all the food I eat, you know, it's real. It grows from the ground, it's not processed. My house, I clean with chemical free detergents. And especially since I left the brand, I don't really wear Bobbi Brown Cosmetics anymore. I still have them in my kit for when I'm in a studio, because the foundations are the best colors out there, but I really use organic makeup now, you know, clean makeup.
Theresa Deluca:
Right.
Bobbi Brown:
Because there's no reason not to. It's certainly not at a place where it's as efficacious as regular makeup, but it's getting there, it's improving.
Theresa Deluca:
I think one thing that I've heard throughout the years, and probably should have been better about it, but only started, was wearing sunscreen every day, and trying to find that brand that you can put on your face every day that really works.
Theresa Deluca:
So I think that's my one biggest advice that I've heard over and over again, is just wear sunscreen.
Bobbi Brown:
It makes a big difference. And don't forget your ears and don't forget the top of your head, if you have exposure, because yeah, it's pretty intense, the sun.
Theresa Deluca:
So you're working on Evolution 18, you've launched justbobbi.com. Let's just throw something else into the mix. You opened a boutique hotel in Montclair.
Theresa Deluca:
You worked on this new venture with your husband, Steven, who's a real estate developer; 32 rooms, Downtown Montclair.
Theresa Deluca:
I really want to get this for my parents for Christmas, like maybe a stay at The George.
Theresa Deluca:
But what was the process like of opening a hotel?
Bobbi Brown:
Well, when I called my husband and said, "I just left the brand. I'm done," he was on the golf course. The first thing he said is, "I can't talk. I'm on the golf course." And I just looked at the phone like, "Are you kidding me?"
Bobbi Brown:
Three minutes later, he called me back. He said, "I'm on my way." And we went out for lunch. And we don't drink at lunch, but we had a glass of wine together.
Theresa Deluca:
A celebration, you know?
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah, whatever. Okay?
Bobbi Brown:
And he looked at me and he said, "I am so happy. I've been waiting a long time for this to happen. I want to spend more time with you, I want to travel." And I started to tear up. He said, "But I have a project I want you to work with me on."
Bobbi Brown:
I've never worked with my husband on a project. He started the cosmetics company with me, but he's never asked me, besides my opinion on color, to work on a project.
Bobbi Brown:
So we worked on this project together, which is now 31 rooms because we turned one room into a Peloton gym.
Theresa Deluca:
Yeah.
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah.
Bobbi Brown:
And it was ... We have no clue. We travel a lot. We know what we like. Again, it's another project that I've no idea.
Bobbi Brown:
And it's been really successful and really amazing. I met my assistant who worked on it. It's been incredible. We've had great people staying there, and celebrities. And today I met two retired teachers. I stopped there for breakfast in the morning.
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah, it's been a really fun project. I'm a people person. I find people interesting. And I get their stories.
Theresa Deluca:
As the creative director of The George, and I thought this was so smart, but you incorporated some of your favorite brands, whether it's Casper or Dyson, Marine Layer, Nespresso, Smeg, into the rooms, you know, kind of giving people a little taste of these brands that are just playing at the top of their game.
Theresa Deluca:
Tell me about what you think the power partnerships has and kind of how you came about the idea to take these companies you might have worked with, or met the founders, and say, "Hey, we can use your products."
Bobbi Brown:
Well, for me, it was ... And it was the one thing that my husband and I were really arguing about, because he doesn't drink coffee; "Why do you need an Nespresso machine?" I'm like, "Well, first of all, to me, it's a game changer. If I go to a hotel and there's a Keurig, I don't like Keurig. I like Nespresso." So I would choose a hotel based on the Nespresso. And I just thought, "You know what?" I wanted to make people's experience the most comfortable, special thing that it could be.
Bobbi Brown:
And for me, I'm not a fancy guy. I like comfort. I like really good sheets. I like good mattresses. I don't like a lot of fluff in the room. And all 31 rooms are completely different. Not because we wanted to decorate them differently; because they're all different sizes, because it's an old historic building and there's brick walls, there's pipes in some. And there's some feeling that you're in the UK when you're there, because I'm an Anglophile.
Bobbi Brown:
So it's, I think, a pretty cool, interesting place with a great curated breakfast.
Theresa Deluca:
The Nespresso was a gift I got my parents for Christmas last year.
Bobbi Brown:
Ah.
Theresa Deluca:
So maybe this year, The George.
Theresa Deluca:
In an article about The George, you said, "I have two role models. One is Mickey Drexler. I could write a book about him. And the other is Richard Branson, because I know he sat in coach and thought, 'How can I make this experience better?'"
Theresa Deluca:
I think you did the same thing with makeup, and doing this with the hotel, how can you make the experience of having people come and stay in a boutique hotel even that much better? Is that something you ask yourself a lot? You know, "How can I make this experience better?"
Bobbi Brown:
Well, I always think what I could personally do better. What could I have done better today? How could I have eaten better yesterday? Could I have had more water? I could have used my time better. I have a very busy mind and I'm always trying to improve on how I do things. You know, do I pay enough attention to my husband? Do I pay enough attention to my girlfriend, to my sons? You know, I'm constantly like, "How could I have done something better?"
Bobbi Brown:
So yeah, that's just kind of who I am as a person.
Theresa Deluca:
I remember about 10, maybe 12 years ago, my mom and I went to the Bobbi Brown Studio Store in Montclair. And I thought the whole experience of having a store that was, you know, only one brand, this kind of VIP experience where we were in Montclair, had a just really cool feeling to it.
Theresa Deluca:
But in Bobbi Brown Cosmetics with black packaging and white lettering, you know, putting your gel liner into a little ink pot, just something very unique, was really special. And Mickey Drexler kind of did the same thing with J Crew. You know, the catalogs. You wanted to be in the store. You want to be part of this world of bright colors and preppy fashion. And it's the same feeling you get when you go into the Apple Store, which I know that he kind of had a hand behind too. People want to be a part of these worlds.
Theresa Deluca:
And my dad, who's worked in marketing and sales for over 30 years, he said, "People buy with emotion and defend it with logic."
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah, no, it's true. It is really true. And Mickey is definitely one of my heroes and one of my best friends. I mean, I love the guy. You know, I call him, he either answers the phone or calls me right back. He answers the phone when he's in yoga. That's my biggest issue with Mickey Drexler. And then his teacher yells at me too; "Mickey, turn off the phone."
Bobbi Brown:
But anyways, you know, Richard Branson, I've never met, but I am very much in awe of people that have created things.
Bobbi Brown:
Paul Smith; you know, so many amazing founders that have done great brands and are true to what they do.
Bobbi Brown:
And it has to change a bit, but it has to stay true to the beliefs.
Theresa Deluca:
A year ago, you launched your podcast, Long Story Short with Bobbi Brown. Since we're doing a podcast interview, I think it's only fair to ask, How did you become interested in podcasting?
Bobbi Brown:
Well, I wasn't interested in podcasting. I had been on Gary Vee's show a couple times, Gary Vaynerchuck. People either are obsessed with him or have no clue who he is, but he's this crazy media guy.
Theresa Deluca:
Also a New Jerseyian.
Bobbi Brown:
Also a New Jerseyian. Yes. Absolutely.
Bobbi Brown:
And he was starting a podcast division and he said, "Do you want to?" And I said, "Okay." I just said, "Okay."
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah, I try things. And I liked it.
Theresa Deluca:
Are there any dream guests you'd like to have on?
Bobbi Brown:
Richard Branson. How's that?
Bobbi Brown:
Bruce Springsteen.
Theresa Deluca:
I think he may be here in a few weeks.
Bobbi Brown:
Really?
Theresa Deluca:
You'll have to come back.
Bobbi Brown:
Oh yeah.
Theresa Deluca:
Yeah.
Theresa Deluca:
Even while running a million dollar beauty empire, billion dollars it turned into, your family has been of utmost importance to you. And I'm not going to ask how you found balance in trying to do all of this-
Bobbi Brown:
There was no balance.
Theresa Deluca:
Exactly.
Theresa Deluca:
So I think the better question to ask is, how did you make it work? You know, how did you do it?
Bobbi Brown:
Well, certainly, you know, priorities and just figuring things out.
Bobbi Brown:
And I'm really lucky. My husband has always been my best friend. He's really tough. So when I go into my like, "Oh my God, I'm freaking out. How am I going to do this? I have to do this. How am I going to ... ?"; "Calm down. It's fine."
Bobbi Brown:
He would never let me discuss anything after nine o'clock. Usually, I would kind of fall apart at like 10-something, and he would teach me to just shut my brain off somehow. And in the morning it didn't look so bad.
Bobbi Brown:
So I give him a lot of credit for it, but I also became, just like I live my life, a little bit creative with how I do things. I always was really nice or sucked up to the principal and got the dates of the sing-a-longs, the school things that I didn't want to miss, put them on my calendar at the beginning of the year so I didn't schedule work trips.
Bobbi Brown:
And there were times where I had a lot of like, "Oh my God," I'd scheduled a trip and something came up. So I made sure I was at the things that mattered, the doctor's appointments, but I always had great people caring for my kids that were more of like family members to me. And you know, it takes a village. It really does.
Theresa Deluca:
What advice do you have for young mothers who are trying to get ahold of working and raising a family?
Bobbi Brown:
It's take one step at a time, and everyone's different. Just because it looks easy, it was not. I could spend a whole hour on all the horror things that happened, and how I got comfortable doing my makeup in the car, you know, going to where I had to be, and all the tricks to do things, but you know, everyone's different and you've got to just figure out a way to make these life decisions.
Bobbi Brown:
And just know this will pass. If your kid's not sleeping now; guess what? They will start sleeping again. There are things that happen, and it's so easy for me, looking back, giving advice, but when you're in it, you just kind of figure it out.
Theresa Deluca:
Have your sons followed your entrepreneurial career path?
Bobbi Brown:
You know, really interesting; my three sons are very different. My oldest son, who is the brains of the operation, who went to Stanford, actually, instead of taking one of those jobs that their friends did that you would never see them again because they worked so much, he has always worked for startups. And so he's on, I think, his third startup out of the UK.
Bobbi Brown:
And my second son, who's very entrepreneurial, is a digital guy and a strength and conditioning coach; has his own business.
Bobbi Brown:
And the baby, who's 21 and a senior in college, definitely follows no one's rules. He's a photographer and a creative guy. He'll probably have his own brand one day.
Theresa Deluca:
Very cool.
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah.
Theresa Deluca:
It's cool they all kind of have a different path too.
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah. And you know what? The amazing thing is, I miss having children, young children and babies, but it's so cool having great kids that are your posse and you could see a lot.
Theresa Deluca:
Bobbi, how do you define success? I know you've said family, I know looking at a huge makeup empire, but what does success mean to you every day?
Bobbi Brown:
Well, you know, certainly it's easy to think that success is only financial, and if that is all it is, then yes, I've achieved it. But honestly, to me, success is being happy and finding joy in what you do and the people around you and how you live your life. That's what success means to me.
Theresa Deluca:
Social media, I've found, is such a powerful platform. I think you've said you run four Instagram handles yourself?
Bobbi Brown:
I do. I think it was five at once.
Theresa Deluca:
Oh my Gosh.
Bobbi Brown:
But now we're a team. Now I have a team.
Bobbi Brown:
I definitely do my own justbobbi.com. You know, every once in a while, someone on the Evolution team says, "Can I post?" Because it's our number one driver. And I say, "Fine."
Bobbi Brown:
You know, I try to be as authentic as possible. Evolution 18 is actually run by a team now, but I run the hotel, the photo studio, and my BB Portfolio, which is kind of a little secret one and a great way for me to just have an archive of all of my things that I'm always like, "Where is that picture? Where's that cover? Oh my God, I forgot about that." I just started putting it on the Instagram.
Theresa Deluca:
I'm a huge social media follower. And I have a love/hate with Instagram, because I think there's so many cool things that you can see on social media, whether it's an incredible photo of somewhere around the world or just an inspiring quote or something that you find like that, but I think there's also that other side to Instagram, especially for young people who are still developing confidence.
Theresa Deluca:
And whether it's comparison or envy or fear of missing out, if you see a photo that you weren't in, you have to wonder, you know, how much time I guess is healthy to spend on social media, and kind of how do people find that balance of building self confidence and using it as a curation platform and also one where you're not comparing yourself to every person that's seemingly perfect, but obviously not?
Bobbi Brown:
Yeah. I do not envy mothers of teenage girls, because yes, especially if there's a party you're not invited to, and all the kids are having fun ...
Bobbi Brown:
You know, sometimes I look at what my peers are doing and I'm like, "Oh my God, they got invited to that? I didn't?" And then I'm like, "Just stop. Just stop." And I'm sure they see me doing what I'm doing and say, "Oh my God, she's doing that?"
Bobbi Brown:
So yes, you have to have realistic expectations. And you have to know that I don't put really bad pictures of myself up. Everyone's like, "Oh my God, she always looks so good." I'm like, "Guess what? I throw out the bad pictures. So no, I don't." Things are not always perfect, and you have to know that.
Bobbi Brown:
But look, like anything in life, you're with a group of people; the majority of the people are really good people, and there's one or two who are not so good.
Bobbi Brown:
So I just think that you have to teach your children how to manage what they're looking at.
Theresa Deluca:
Bobbi, as we wrap up, you have some, I'm going to call them Bobbi-isms: be nice, help someone, move your body daily, stop obsessing about your flaws. You make them seem so simple.
Theresa Deluca:
And speaking of isms, I want to take a listen to another sage friend and mentor, Yogi Berra.
Bobbi Brown:
Aww.
Yogi Berra:
I got up there, I said, "I want to thank everybody for making this night necessary." So I don't know. It just came out that way.
Yogi Berra:
You know, a lot of people at times say, "Yogi-ism." I don't even know I say it myself. I really don't.
Yogi Berra:
The best one, I think, too, is, "When it comes to a fork in the road, take it." And we have. I go out there, my road in Montclair. If you go to the fork, you go on Highland Avenue where I live. Either one takes you on Highland Avenue. That's how I got that.
Yogi Berra:
"It ain't over till it's over." I did it with The Mets.
Yogi Berra:
They just come out, and I don't know I say them.
Bobbi Brown:
Oh my God. I really ... I'm speechless. And the man, I loved so much.
Bobbi Brown:
I mean, when I look back at my life and my career, and I realize how lucky I was to have certain people in my life, Yogi's certainly one of them. And he was that guy. And I lived right by the fork. You know, we met him, me and my husband. Founding members of his museum came to my house for Yom Kippur every year. He was at all three Bar Mitzvahs. We served brisket at breakfast, because he doesn't want to come for dinner and have fish.
Bobbi Brown:
So, Yogi was a really big part. And honestly, to walk around with Yogi Berra anywhere in public and see the people coming up to him and see how he handled himself was just an incredible role model.
Bobbi Brown:
You know, he was one person. We also had the luck of being friends with Neil Armstrong. Like who gets to be friends with Yogi Berra and Neil Armstrong, you know? And they were just the kindest, nicest people.
Theresa Deluca:
Well, on that note, I think it's fair to say we can end this and say, "Be nice to people."
Bobbi Brown:
Yep. Exactly.
Theresa Deluca:
Bobbi, thank you so much for coming and joining us.
Theresa Deluca:
That's our conversation for this week. Our guest was Bobbi Brown, entrepreneur, makeup artist and wellness coach.
Theresa Deluca:
If you like what you heard, please rate us on iTunes so other folks know where to find us. If you've got a comment or question you'd like one of our experts to tackle on a future show, email us at icehouse@the ice.com, or tweet at us at Ice House Podcast.
Theresa Deluca:
Our show is produced by Pete Asch, with production assistance from Stephen Romanchich and Ian Wolfe.
Theresa Deluca:
I'm Theresa DeLuca, your host, signing off from the library of the New York Stock Exchange. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 1:
The information contained in this podcast was obtained in part from publicly available sources and not independently verified. Neither ICE nor its affiliates make any representations or warranties, expressed or implied, as to the accuracy or completeness of the information, and do not sponsor, approve or endorse any of the content herein, all of which is presented solely for informational and educational purposes.
Speaker 1:
Nothing herein constitutes an offer to sell, a solicitation of an offer to buy any security, or a recommendation of any security or trading practice.
Speaker 1:
Some portions of the proceeding conversation may have been edited for the purpose of length or clarity.
