Speaker 1:
From the library of the New York stock exchange at the corner of Wall and Broad Streets in New York city, your inside the Ice House, our podcast from Intercontinental exchange on markets, leadership and visionary global business. The dream drivers that have made the NYSE, an indispensable institution for global growth for more than 225 years. Each week we feature stories of those who hatch plans, create jobs and harness the engine of capitalism right here, right now at the NYSE. And if I sees 12 exchanges and seven clearing houses around the world, now here's your host, Josh king, head of communications at Intercontinental exchange.
Speaker Josh King:
On this show, we're taking you on a journey, a journey inside the truth machine. How would you like to live in a world that restores personal control over our data, assets and identities, grants billions of excluded people access to the global economy and shifts the balance of power to revive society's faith in itself. That's the promise of the blockchain and the premise of a new book by Michael Casey and Paul Vigna called, you guessed it The Truth Machine, the blockchain and the future of everything. We've been at the future's industry Association's 43rd annual international conference in Boca Raton Florida. A week filled with presentations by industry leaders. And of course, big thinkers and futurists with meetings around on the periphery where deals are done that have the potential to shape the economy to come. Michael Casey co-author of The Truth Machine is one of those big thinkers and futurists, a former journalist who spent 18 years of a Wall Street journal covering global economics and finance.
Speaker Josh King:
He's written five books and is now a special advisor at the MIT Media Lab, where he works on applications of the decentralizing technology behind Bitcoin and other digital currencies with so many players in the futures industry. And so many of us around the world watching in wonder at the rapid emergence of cryptocurrencies and its underlying blockchain technology. Jeff Sprecher, the chairman and CEO of Intercontinental exchange thought that Casey would stimulate a provocative dialogue on you guessed it, the future of everything. So we brought him in as the feature guest at our annual energy breakfast at FIA Boca. After, the break Jeff's conversation with Michael Casey
Speaker 1:
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Speaker Josh King:
So quickly to set the scene for you. This will be our first event broadcast of the Ice House. And we're thrilled that our chairman and CEO Jeff Sprecher does the honors as our interlocutor with Michael Casey, as many listeners know Jeff's no stranger to the disruptive power of innovation, having bought the continental power exchange for a dollar back in 1997 and turning it into ice. Now a fortune 500 company that operates the exchanges, clearing houses and information services that market participants everywhere rely on to invest trade and manage risk across global financial and commodity markets. Now let's join the action in the grand ballroom of the Boca Raton resort and club. The first voice will hear is that of Jeff Sprecher.
Jeff Sprecher:
So welcome to Boca.
Michael Casey:
Thank you.
Jeff Sprecher:
And a lot of us in this room have been struggling to learn about the industry that you know a lot about over the last few years. So hopefully you can raise our knowledge level. Once you start down the rabbit hole, though, you can get lost. So just be warned, you might want to shut your ears. It's maybe the thing that contradicts Jane Gladstone, which is I may leave. So can you help us just explain for people that may not be as versed in this? What is the blockchain?
Michael Casey:
So a blockchain, I think we just have to get right back to the core of this function of record keeping, which is an essence of civilization, right? So the book is a little philosophical like that. We dive deeply into the history of record keeping and why it's important. And traditionally we've had ledgers to keep track of transactions, which is a very important function for the sake of imbuing trust in our economic exchanges and therefore facilitating the capacity of human beings to enter into exchanges. So that's the big philosophical take on this. Traditionally, those ledgers have been run by centralized institutions. This is a decentralized process and the reason why we call it a truth machine is because we're not trying to say that it's a means of discovering absolute truth. You are not going to unpack the mysteries of the universe by reading this book.
Michael Casey:
And in fact, there's nothing to stop from inserting falsehoods into a blockchain. What it is this kind of consensus idea of truth so that we now have a mechanism and it's built upon some crazy math cryptography, a series of game, theoretical constructions and things. So that there's a protocol that allows a completely decentralized and it can vary the degree of decentralization, but ultimately a distributed array of computers to arrive at this consensus on the veracity of each update to the ledger, right?
Jeff Sprecher:
Right.
Michael Casey:
So as a result, you've now got basically a system that can't be changed, not without a lot of work going into that. And you have kind of this real time traceability because once everybody accepts that this is the common truth and you're accepting it at a given moment, you can trace this right back. So you have traceability, you have immutability and you have this kind of like permanence to the record and a distributed structure to it so that everybody is collectively participating in the upkeep of the ledger, rather there being these siloed separate centralized ledgers.
Jeff Sprecher:
Got you. So you've now you were a reporter and you've now sort of found your way to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. What's going on? What are you doing there? What's going on at MIT?
Michael Casey:
So there's a lot of work that needs to be done to develop the infrastructure there's Bitcoin itself, the oldest blockchain just does seven transactions, a second, which to you guys of course is laughable, right? And therefore there's this big challenge as to how you scale it. And Looks a lot like not entirely, but something like the early days of the internet, when there was all these challenges that need to be resolved before this technology could be basically mainstreamed. So we see our role at least one important role in sort of working hard on the protocol. So we have, for example, a guy called Thaddeus Dryja, who was the co-author of a very important white paper about something called The Lightning Network, right? And this is a payment channel system that basically resides above Bitcoin or above and far for that matter.
Michael Casey:
Any cryptocurrency layer and then removes the kind of heavy computational requirement of there being a transaction, being proven to this big complicated ledger every single time, but still gives provability. So we see this as second layer solutions, the internet was built in layers. You have TCPIP as the base protocol. And then you have all these other protocols, HTTP, SMTP, which give this functionality and then you get applications on top of it. We think that something similar is going to happen with this technology as well. So lightning is a second layer solution to try to lift up some of that stuff, get upon which we think applications will develop. So a lot of infrastructure development, we also a guy from... this should interest a lot of you. Roble Ali was formally heading up the digital currency project at the bank of England and is now working at MIT with central banks to develop a prototype for a digital fee at currency.
Jeff Sprecher:
Got you.
Michael Casey:
So that's, the kind of like heavy financial sector development that we're doing. I myself are more interested in application layer solutions and science. When I saw it was the ice energy breakfast, and I know the ices beginnings were energy it's relevant, I'm into solar micro grids as a potential project. And I'm interested in how we could capture value in that and potentially create securities on top of it. So this is a much more of an application. How do I...
Michael Casey:
It's focused on social impact. We're looking to roll out these grids in Puerto Rico actually. And so yeah, there're various layers of application that we're working on, but the other thing I would just say roundabout way talking about all of this, but we think it's very important that in an environment that is open source has a sort of a wild, anything goes feel to it. That is a kind of a voice of reason that is most important in neutral and the beauty of MIT for any matter that, that university but one that carries the gravitas of MIT is that people can look to it as an important independent voice. And so we see ourselves something as not exactly a standards body, but potentially being important and a player in the development of standards-
Jeff Sprecher:
Right.
Michael Casey:
Because we're seen as an honest broker
Jeff Sprecher:
And I think certainly myself and a lot of people in this room a few years ago when we started to hear about blockchain, started thinking about it and working on it. And I recently read a paper that had tracked over 80,000 proofs of concept. Many of which were funded by people in this room and people that we know, but of those 80,000 92% had already been abandoned and of the 8% that were still there. You have to assume some of those were recent and will be abandoned. So the failure rate that we're seeing is huge, but yet the enthusiasm or the rhetoric or the conversation that we're having about blockchain is almost fevered. What do you see going on there that makes something that fails so often so popular?
Michael Casey:
So I see all of this in including what to me is clearly a bubble in token prices, in a historical context and the historical context that is not constant, where there is ever increasing exchange of ideas in an open source, rapid fire environment. I mean, whenever there is a new idea that comes along, that could be potentially transformative. And I'm sure when we go back and look at all these bubbles through history, and so I'm talking, using bubble here broadly, because it's the bubble of investment, but it's also the bubble of kind of R&D exploring throwing spaghetti at the walls, seeing what happens. I think you'll find this has always been the case. I mean, but the thing is, it's all a matter of degree, right?
Jeff Sprecher:
Right.
Michael Casey:
So obviously you wouldn't have had nearly those sorts of numbers looking at early experiments in railroads or something, but it relative to its time whenever these technologies come along, there is a massive amount of attempt to be the big guy that runs away with it.
Michael Casey:
And clearly I wouldn't have written this book if I didn't think that at the core, there is this very huge potential to transform not just our financial markets but our economy generally. So you go through this process and it's a process that is inherently wild west like.
Jeff Sprecher:
Right.
Michael Casey:
Because no one's in charge and it looks like The dot com bubble is some aspects right. But I think The dot com bubble was done in 1990s context, right?
Jeff Sprecher:
Right.
Michael Casey:
Without AI and Big Data and all the massive amount of existing new infrastructure that we have within which to roll out these experiments, remember there's so much code out there now that can be tapped that it's really easy to do this. Open source codes actually really in facilitate an enormous amount of R&D that wasn't ever possible before. It's cheap to roll these POCs. I do think that there's a great deal of hype and that feeds it.
Jeff Sprecher:
Right.
Michael Casey:
And the numbers that you site reflect that. But I do think that also is a kind of a necessary or inevitable reflection of this moment. So I don't find those numbers surprising at all, to be honest.
Jeff Sprecher:
And you think of that something comes out of the other end that all of that failure will produce. There'll be a Phoenix, if you will. And something will-
Michael Casey:
Yeah. I really do. Phoenix would be nice. Wouldn't it? It's a good name for an ICO. Phoenix coin. Yes. High five.
Jeff Sprecher:
Would be the richest man on the face of the earth.
Michael Casey:
Yeah. We could be.
Jeff Sprecher:
For a day.
Michael Casey:
For a day. I've been grappling with, and I think I may have gotten it. And you guys can see whether this sticks with you or not, but with The dot com bubble analogy and look obviously a lot of money was wasted ZZZZ Best. I was, for some reason, I didn't know that one, I certainly knew of pets.com and others, but, Chris has given me ZZZZ Best now is my go-to reference point. Lot of hyper speculation, a lot of money was lost, but we all also know that underneath that was built the infrastructure upon which this interesting new internet 2.0 era evolve with smart, with smartphones and social media, cloud computing and Big Data. And all these concepts were made possible because during that boom cheap capital was unlocked and went into things like fiber optic cable, 3G mobile research, a lot of data centers were built out.
Michael Casey:
And then that gave us something to work upon. I think that it's harder to put your finger on. What's got what... Where those like nodes are of infrastructure capacity, but there's something very similar happening in a social, what I call social infrastructure context. And again, open source code. This is a key part of this, right? There are so many lines of code being written right now, by these social networks of collaborating developers that might do nothing right now, and look like a useless coin.
Michael Casey:
Two years down the road, someone's going to come along and say, "oh, if we just flip that and do something else, we could build this killer app". Right?
Jeff Sprecher:
Right.
Michael Casey:
Bitcoin itself, as a function of that, it was built upon, it's just amalgam, of like five or six different technologies that have been around for quite a while. And he just put them all together. And lo and behold created this remarkable invention. He, she, it, they, we, I'm not saying I know who Satoshi Nakamoto is. So I think something similar as is underway and it's a really interesting and exciting time to be involved. It's why I'm interested in this, why I quit my job? I mean, to be part of this kind of swirling mass human inventiveness with all the risks that come with it as well, right? Is a really interesting thing to be engaged in.
Jeff Sprecher:
I watched two events that I thought were fascinating in the blockchain recently. First, there was a kind of a well publicized I'll call it a fraud where a lot of coins that were on the Ethereum network were stolen. And this caused great consternation obviously to the community around that. And ultimately a decision was made to change the code so that it took the value of those stolen coins away. So basically do some kind of a fork in the code and make those stolen coins. Let's call it useless. And then similarly you mentioned, I think you said that the Bitcoin blockchain can do maybe seven transactions per second. And there's been a lot of talk by people who said, well, we should create Bitcoin cash or some other derivative that would have more capacity. And those two events were a social conversation.
Jeff Sprecher:
They were not the truth machine. They were not indelible code. That solved the problem. They turned to human beings who said, the record may be wrong or needs to be changed, or the backbone needs to be changed in order to affect the different outcome. And when you look at who were the leaders that... So then it almost feels like leaders emerged with a strong voice and who were the leaders? Well, they were some of the early code writers. Most of whom are very wealthy, at least on paper today. They were not elected by anybody. There was no sort of governance or construct around them. And they sort of used their brute force to affect a will on a group of people, an unelected wealthy group of people. Is that what Satoshi thinks is the governance of the blockchain?
Michael Casey:
Look, I'm not going let the cat out of the bag. Speaking as Satoshi. Least channel that. I've got no idea what Satoshi's was in his head. I mean, we've read the white paper. I think people always trying to sort of D in what, and this is actually an interesting way to emphasize your point, because I agree with your characterizations entirely of what happened. The very fact that people struggle to figure out and they care who Satoshi Nakamoto is, speaks to this innate desire amongst human beings to have a human being that they can point to as being the authority figure in this, right. Everyone's always appealing to Satoshi is what he would've done. So I don't think we're capable of building a truth machine that is entirely separate from all this social infrastructure.
Jeff Sprecher:
Right.
Michael Casey:
There is critical... In fact, it's a big thing with the book is that we've just got to deal with this. Like, so I find this is somewhat philosophical take on your question. I'll come back to some of the more specifics, but the there's this word trustless ness, which I find really annoying that emerges out of the crypto world is if the only way we could possibly build these things is so that not a single trusted third party is ever involved because it's a very paranoid way to think. And this is natural because crypto cryptographers are sort of inherently paranoid people.
Michael Casey:
They think that just because everyone's not out to get you doesn't mean what's the satying there's the conspiracy to get you. But by saying that, they're ignoring the reality of what the world is. And so I think that we have to do this. We have to have these trusted entities in some form. And part of this development process that I'm talking about, that MIT is involved in as we go forward 10, 20 years, how long this will take is figuring out not just the core infrastructure from a cryptographic perspective, but also, what sort of social are we going to build so that there is governance around the chain.
Michael Casey:
So that minority interests are protected, which is essentially what the problem was with that Ethereum thing that you alluding to. So that founders have got some constraints on them and then working out what we can do with that. And regulators have a key role, I think, to think about this, what the actual... not just how we protecting customers and investors, but also market structure, right? How are we thinking about these chains as a marketplace and therefore, are we creating oligopoly of gatekeepers here?
Jeff Sprecher:
Right?
Michael Casey:
What is the optimal level of decentralization that allows for the best input in all of this? And there's a lot of work to be done. So I think you can take a lot of lessons from the existing. I mean, you can go right back to U.S. Constitution and think about balances of power and all these things. And how do we take that and map it into this space, but also intersect with these existing institutions. I think both need to recognize each other and move forward. So I'm by no means a hard... I think it would be an absolutely terrifying world to exist in if we were just reliant on an algorithm. I think that would be, we might as well just turn off the lights and shut down humanity. So-
Jeff Sprecher:
But aren't there people that are really the deep proponents of the blockchain that is actually what's driving them. That's part of the notion that this could be fully distributed, global and not overseen by a central bank in terms of a currency or a government in terms of information?
Michael Casey:
Disintermediating and you are one of the big disinter mediators yourself. So, you've-
Jeff Sprecher:
Yeah, but I'm talking to you because I'm worried that you may be the next one. Does it to me.
Michael Casey:
It's not me, by the way, I'm not driving this ship I'm not Satoshi just to be clear here. Look, I think that we see... It's all a spectrum to me and we need to get to a more decentralized system. We are building a decentralized economy, we've got distributed energy systems coming out. We've got IOT, we have peer to peer lending. We have all of this infrastructure, which is every day becoming more and more decentralized at the same time that we're building these huge honey pots of centralized data. It's a hacker's dream. They've got more and more access points that are as vulnerable as ever door knobs on your house can be a way to get into JP Morgans, not to pick on a saying that this is the way it's going to happen by the way.
Michael Casey:
But you know, any big institution is vulnerable now by this decentralized system. I think we need a decentralized trust architecture to kind of be commensurate with that system, because if we don't, we're just going to have these contrast. And so that's the directionality and it inherently involves disintermediating, a lot of gatekeepers, but it doesn't mean that as a society, we shouldn't have these social external off chain sources of trust.
Jeff Sprecher:
Right.
Michael Casey:
That bring us back when everything go wrong. So I'm certainly not advocating killing off regulation or anything like that, or building nation states on the blockchain or whatever these radical ideas and to your point, initially, yes, there is a drive behind this that goes back to the early cipher punk movement. The hardcore crypto anarchist libertarian types, but the tent is much wider right now on the one, the first thing I would say is, thank God for those guys, because you don't get change without the sort of radical fringe types lobbing the Molotov cocktails into the castle.
Michael Casey:
But it's not necessarily their vision that is the one that comes out of that. And I think we are definitely getting to that stage right now, I'm the chairman of the advisory board at Coin Desk. One of the leading news organization within the blockchain space and they're the host of consensus. I think the most important conference every year. The tent has become incredibly wide. I mean the number of countries that were represented, the number of different fortune 500 companies that have got exhibits there. The conversation around this is so much more diverse now than just what it was when I first got interested in this space and inherently, that means that their vision is going to be much more mainstream than that of the radicals.
Michael Casey:
And somewhere in the middle of this conversation, something emerges. What I advocate is for everyone to get involved and elevate this to a conversation that is of public interest. Because then if we don't, we will get this elite group of very wealthy young radicals, some of them brilliant cryptographers and often also well intended by the way.
Jeff Sprecher:
Right.
Michael Casey:
But nonetheless, embedding into these algorithms, their values and what we need is diverse values. We need more women in this space. We need more diversity across the board so that the design of these systems reflects the interest of humanity broadly.
Jeff Sprecher:
Right. And you touched on a point that resonated with me with my company, like many people in the room here are struggling with another trend that exists in the world. In Europe, they call it the right to be forgotten. In my hometown of Atlanta there was a major company that was hacked and millions of people's personal information was stolen. We've seen a conversation at least about should Facebook, Amazon and the Google and the big social media firms I'll call them that as a catchphrase, should they be able to sell our personal information? Should they be able to sell our views? Should they be able to proffer ideas to us based on what they think we might relate to. And so you've got this trend towards individualization and individual control of information, and then you lay over this other idea of maybe all transactions, all information should be in one big distributed ledger. That would be a permanent in indelible record with no right to be forgotten. How do you see that circle being squared?
Michael Casey:
Through technology. It seems like such a contrast, but in some respects, there's two answers one is it's a mindset change whereby public data, once public suddenly loses its value to a hacker, right? I mean, it's precisely the secretness of sort of the way we've constructed identity. I'm not saying by the way, I'm trying to get to this next part of it, but like that we should all be putting all of our personal data out there publicly. That would be a very dangerous thing to happen indeed. But when it comes to certain data, it's precisely the ownership of it or the monopolizing of it that makes it valuable and sensitive, right? Once, it's distributed it ceases to have that value. So you start to think differently about the kind of architecture of our economy when an individual has control of their own data and is able to participate on their terms rather than the terms of Google and Facebook and everybody else.
Michael Casey:
And I think it's interesting that we're now having this conversation around those big behemoths, because that going to drive us to think about the different architecture. Now, in addition to that, clearly it's a scary proposition that we could just be placing everywhere, our data. And the nice thing is that the same technology that creates the distributed structure of a blockchain, the same field of technology has within it tools to enhance privacy and allow for interaction, even though there's privacy. So zero knowledge proofs is a term that you all should get familiar with. This is a concept in cryptography that allows you to do computation on a set of data and know something about it without knowing its underlying component. So in theory, you could run a blockchain, know that the state has changed and therefore prove the integrity of everything, but not know where it's come from.
Michael Casey:
And this is a great interest to banks. I know that Zcash one of the very most advanced, technologically advanced cryptocurrency implementations is working with the financial sector to figure out how, in the context of an interbank, transactional environment, you protect the information that obviously is very important to banks. So yeah, it's a key question. It also speaks to what do we mean by identity? Solving identity is going to be a really important issue. How do we make identity something that we control something that is a construct around all of the data that matters to everybody. But I'm able to sort of parcel that attributes of that and not have this kind of fire hose of information about who I am being so vulnerable. And so KYC, AML has to be rethought. It has to be rethought. And there's a vision that we kind of touch up in the book about how this thing might go forward. It's complicated. But again, it needs everybody to get involved, but I do think we can square that circle.
Jeff Sprecher:
Okay. That's great. Well, you don't know this, but I'm one of the longer running participants in this conference. And every year I stay in the same room and every year, I guess when I leave my team reserves all the same rooms again. And so would you advise me to get that room again for next year?
Michael Casey:
As I said you are the disruptor here, Jeff. I mean-
Jeff Sprecher:
You are very kind.
Michael Casey:
I think do, you should get a room at token Fest next Year.
Jeff Sprecher:
That's right. Yeah. We may want to shift out west.
Michael Casey:
Well, two answers. Yeah. You're pretty safe next year. You'll all still be around. I don't think again, this is a long trajectory here for the reasons that we discussed earlier.
Jeff Sprecher:
But do you see institutions, like I mentioned, who were intermediaries because we provide governance and oversight and KYC and AML and community. I mean information there are societal reasons that the organizations that I'm talking about have grown up over 100 of years.
Michael Casey:
Right.
Jeff Sprecher:
Is it your mind that or do you think the world just dis intermediates and it's purely, everything is peer to peer and we all communicate with each other and we really choose our own societies without any intermediary.
Michael Casey:
I really think you're the best person to be answering this question because look at what's happened to the business of stock exchanges. I mean, you were literally a physical place for people to trade scripts of paper. What are you now? You're a matching engine for-
Jeff Sprecher:
Right.
Michael Casey:
The same concept. I think there's this service provision that is going to be critical no matter what, and the expertise and wisdom and stored knowledge that comes with that will be the means by which institutions like these will participate. But in their current form, many of them will need to be dis intermediate because there will not be a need for them. Like if we get multi-sig technology properly figured out when it comes to storage of keys and everything else, why do we need custodial banks? Sorry to state street and bank, whoever. But the thing is there's a-
Jeff Sprecher:
But where just, let's just tease that one out where I've got a wallet and a colleague has a wallet and we could each keep our tokens in our personal wallet. So we wouldn't need a third party trusted source potentially, but what if I lose my phone or what if I mean-
Michael Casey:
But again, technology, I'm not saying that... Ooh, technology just is going to fix it, but there is a lot of work being done on all these sorts of things. So webs of trust is an interesting concept about how, when you lose it, you can now call upon 20 people who can vouch for you. And that might not be as simple as just here my buddies, but something much more sophisticated around, it could be 20. It could be an institution that loses keys and there's 20 other institutions that do the same. So, that becomes a protective matter. The multi sig concept, right? Which, is the dual key Icon, neither one of us can make the transaction happen unless both those keys are on, right? Yeah those sorts of things bring layers of protection that may render a lot of these other functions are necessary.
Michael Casey:
I think that the bottom line is like, does your institution exist for what is a... I might define it as a regulatory purpose in the context of a centralized structure that is moot in a decentralized system. And if so, how are you going to add value in this new world? What can you take from your existence? I'm in the energy space, looking at what public utilities you going to do when we start thinking of our grid as an interlinked system of distributed grid micro grids, which will be more secure, which will have more pricing dynamic at that local level, what does the utility do? I think they provide phenomenal the important data analysis.
Michael Casey:
They bring load managing expert expertise. Yes, people will lose their jobs. There's no doubt about that, that's not different from any technological change, hopefully they will get redeployed into different things. I do think that in terms of this end of work concept, that is relevant, obviously not just in this sector, but so much of technology. This technology is very much a player in that. We have a section there about what might happen to the accounting profession when we have real time data and therefore what might happen to equity analysts, who every three months, rely on that data to benchmark their results.
Jeff Sprecher:
Is therefore those guys are already under a lot of pressure here.
Michael Casey:
Right. But they will find things to do if they're smart. I mean, because the design thinking the mindset look, Carrie is in a way reinventing himself in this way with us, right?
Jeff Sprecher:
Right.
Michael Casey:
He's bringing all of that wisdom, that knowledge and understanding and applying it, we're going to move even more so into a knowledge economy than we even are now. And that's where it goes. So massive dis intermediation is going to happen. I think, as we get 10, 20 years out.
Jeff Sprecher:
Right.
Michael Casey:
But right now it's the time to think about how do we reinvent both the human beings and the institutions to play, not just a role that is designated by a regulator, but actually is relevant to the new self-governing or different governance, I'll say, cause it's not just self, but differently governs structure that the distributed ledger environment to glads.
Jeff Sprecher:
Okay. Please help me in thanking him for giving us his thoughts this morning.
Michael Casey:
Thank you.
Speaker Josh King:
That's our conversation for this week. Our guest was Michael Casey author of The Truth Machine, the blockchain and the future of everything. He was in Conversation with Jeffrey Brecker, the founder, chairman, and CEO of Intercontinental exchange. If you like what you heard, please rate us on iTunes. So other folks know where to find us. And if you've got a comment or question, you'd like one of our experts to tackle on a future show, email us at [email protected] Or tweet at us at NYSE. Our show is produced by Pete Ash and Ian Wolf with production assistance from Ken Abel and Stephen Porter. I'm Josh king, your host signing off from FIA Boca and Boca Raton Florida. Thanks for listen.
Speaker 1:
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