Speaker 1:
From the library of the New York Stock Exchange at the corner of Wall and Broad Streets in New York City, you're Inside the ICE House. Our podcast from intercontinental exchange on markets, leadership and vision in global business. The dream drivers that have made the NYSE an indispensable institution for global growth for more than 225 years. Each week, we feature stories of those who hatch plans, create jobs and harness the engine of capitalism right here, right now at the NYSE and at ICE's 12 exchanges and seven clearing houses around the world.
Pete Asch:
Welcome inside the ICE House. I'm your host Pete Asch, and I have some good news, the future is now. While I'm personally still waiting for my hoverboard, a recent episode of Planet Money is The Indicator announced that by 2024, just six years from today, robots will be working the same number hours as humans. This will eliminate up to 75 million jobs, but also create over 100 million new jobs for people. The workforce and the global economy is being transformed.
Pete Asch:
As the CEO Globant, Martin Migoya said recently on this podcast in the last 18 months, we've been hit by the tsunami of artificial intelligence. Our guest today State Street Global Advisors, Sue Thompson likely would sum up simply that the Fourth Industrial Revolution has arrived. The New York Stock Exchange has been around for the first three industrial revolutions, and its history can tell you that each of the proceeding periods of innovation and transformation came with the growth of new businesses while companies that could not innovate found themselves on this sideline.
Pete Asch:
That brings us the topic of today's podcast, how can we know which companies are riding the wave and which ones are being left in the wake? Perhaps the solution is just ask the technology itself. We'll be right back for our conversation with Sue Thompson on SPDR Kensho ETFs and using artificial intelligence to invest in the machines of the future.
Jim Koch :
I'm Jim Koch, brewer of Sam Adams here in the Holler Tower in Germany to select the best heirloom hops for our Boston Lager. You can't tell by looking this isn't a beauty contest, the ugliest hops are often the best. You have to do this, rub a handful together to release the aromas, close your eyes and inhale. We brew Sam Adams Boston Lager with only these hand selected heirloom hops, not pretty just delicious.
Speaker 4:
The Boston beer can be bust to mass, savor the flavor responsibly.
Pete Asch:
Sue Thompson is an executive vice president of State Street Global Advisors, and serves as the head of SPDR, America's distribution. Sue was the CEO and president of her own firm, Thompson Peak Advisory, but joined State Street this year. She's also a board member and co-founder of Women in ETFs. Sue joins us today to talk about SPDR Kensho ETFs, and how to position your investments for the new economy. So welcome to show Sue, what brings you to New York and what did you just see? We just had a conversation off Mike about some of the amazing breakthroughs that you're looking at.
Sue Thompson :
Yeah, so I was at a conference yesterday that the New York Times put on called the Deal Boat Conference, and they had Boston Dynamics there with their robot dog called Spot. And they even had Spot able to basically dance. But we've been talking a lot about how the future of computing is starting to change, and so for example, they have been able to at a very rudimentary level figure out how to have a computer chip that is the size of a single atom. Now, it can't do much yet, but it shows you where the future's going to be.
Sue Thompson :
You can have a computer now that is the size of a grain of rice. People don't realize this, but the new Apple watch. It has all of the computing power of a Cray supercomputer from back in the '80s. And it just goes to show you what exponential technology starts to look like as computing power grows exponentially, and we don't see a slowdown in Moore's law that computing power will increase in double every 18 months. We continue to see it apply. And so that means that we're putting more and more on smaller and smaller chips, and it's just transforming the way we live our lives.
Pete Asch:
And it's really transforming what we can consider putting technology into, right?
Sue Thompson :
Yes, absolutely. I can imagine if you have a computer that is the size of a supercomputer that's equal to a grain of rice, you can start to understand just how that could transform everything from... Imagine if you want to have better facial recognition so that if I want to have a better understanding of as you're sitting here looking at me right now, "is he telling me the truth or is he not telling me the truth?"
Sue Thompson :
I just have my glasses on with my little grain of rice supercomputer in the arm there, and it's going to have facial recognition and it's going to be able to help me discern that. So then you take it a step further and you think about how that's going to transform medicine. You think about people that are on the autistic spectrum and how helpful that could be when they can't personally maybe understand and read facial expressions, that having a computer help them. Imagine how much that could transform a person's life. So we're so excited about the future of what this could mean for medicine, of what it could mean for people with disabilities. We just think it's transformative.
Pete Asch:
Speaking of recent developments, what brought you to State Street earlier this year from running your own firm?
Sue Thompson :
It's funny, I don't think I would've come back into this part of the industry for any other firm and certainly not for any other opportunity. I've always just looked at State Street Global Advisors is having this terrific platform, innovator of the very first ETF. And I thought, "That would be fun," right? "That would be something fun as we start to think about the future of ETFs and where things are heading." To be with a firm that was the original innovator.
Pete Asch:
So you'd left the ETF space for about two years, what had changed in this rapidly changing space?
Sue Thompson :
Technology continues to evolve at a tremendous rate. I was just earlier this week down in Washington, DC for the annual Schwab Impact Conference. And unlike in years before, they had an entire section devoted just to new technology companies that are there to support advisors and investors. And it's everything from client relationship management systems, to straight through processing, to Robo-advisors. It's been an incredible couple of years to see the developments there.
Sue Thompson :
Even when you think something's going to grow rapidly, even when you can see the opportunity for it. I think it always comes as surprise just how fast it grew and just how fast it continues to grow. There's no other financial product in the world today that is growing at the rate that ETFs both have been and continue to be.
Pete Asch:
Let's jump into that growth. So first let's start with a quick trip to the past. I want to listen to economist Andrew McAfee laying out his vision for the future.
Andrew McAfee :
For about 200 years people have been saying exactly what I'm telling you at the age of technological unemployment is at hand, starting with the Luddites smashing looms in Britain just about two centuries ago, and they have been wrong. Our economies in the developed world have cost it along on something pretty close to full employment, which brings up a critical question. Why is this time different if it really is? The reason it's different is that just in the past few years, our machines have started demonstrating skills they have never ever had before.
Pete Asch:
That was from 2013, our employment is even higher than it was back then, but what's happened since and what would you define as the Fourth Industrial Revolution that he was hinting at there?
Sue Thompson :
I think when we talk about the Fourth Industrial Revolution, it's really where man meets machine. And whether that's in the field of robotics, whether that's in the field of artificial intelligence. We see this merging of man and machine that is the thing that we see that's most transformative. Just yesterday I was at a conference where the folks from Boston Dynamics were previewing their new robot, they call it Atlas. And it can literally do back flips, it's like a humanoid type of robot, a biped. And it's absolutely incredible to see. And when you start to think about the use of robots, for example, to help the elderly as a companion, you begin to get a sense of the possible.
Pete Asch:
State Street is one of the oldest American banks, but you found a young partner down the street in Boston. How did the partnership with Kensho develop?
Sue Thompson :
We did. When you look at most of the way that indices are constructed, we look at various things, including revenue. And revenue, if you think about it is a backward looking measure. So what's interesting about the way they at Kensho operates is it's machine learning, it's big data. And basically what they do is they comb through all of the 10 QS and 10 Ks, and they look for basically word clouds, right, of where are we starting to see mentions of technologies and what kinds of technologies.
Sue Thompson :
Because when you look at a lot of companies today, they're not monolithic any longer. Avis is a great example. You and I may think of Avis as a rental car company, and yet they are more than that, right? They are also the owner of Zipcar, which is the biggest ride-share type of arrangement. And so you look at both traditional companies and the new companies, and by combing through this data, you can actually see where the puck is heading so to speak.
Sue Thompson :
Particularly, I'll give you a great example. If you were to look at Apple and you were to say, "When were we going to see the iPhone takeoff?" If you had looked at revenue, you wouldn't have gotten a good clue, but if you had looked at the regulatory filings, if you had looked at how often they were mentioning mobile, that's where you really saw it start to take off. And if you had invested earlier in that process, you would've ended up with a much better return than after the revenue showed up.
Pete Asch:
And that's something I found shock when I was reading through the literature on the Kensho is you think machine learning, you think AI, you're thinking complex mathematics. This is really just reading comprehension at a level beyond a human analyst.
Sue Thompson :
Right. You can sit there, and we actually had a stack of 10 Ks, and it's being able to go through two feet of 10 Ks in two seconds. Humans just can't do that.
Pete Asch:
But things are changing around it. I think one of the things that's interesting is while those 10 Ks haven't changed, they're still long dense documents. When State Street launched the first sector ETF in the 1990s, it was pretty defined what a sector is. But the future of today, how are sector definitions evolving? And quickly are these new sectors popping up?
Sue Thompson :
It's happening at a pretty rapid space, pace rather. Let's take transportation, right? Smart transportation is going to look very different. You look at GM, and right now they're manufacturing cars. What happens when they decide to start manufacturing the vertical takeoff and landing vehicles? Are they then airplane transportation? How do we think of them? So we're going to continue to see companies evolve.
Sue Thompson :
We think of transportation now as autonomous vehicles. Well, in order to do that, you need AI. So is Invidia, do we consider that in part a transportation company? And that's what's interesting about the Kensho methodology, is it allows us to look at how sectors could look in the future, not how they are at present.
Pete Asch:
And is Kensho coming up with these potential sectors or are there human analysts looking at the data?
Sue Thompson :
Kensho is actually coming up with these. Right now we have future security, intelligent infrastructure, space. And I think we're going to continue to see these type of sectors evolve.
Pete Asch:
How long does the sector have to be before state trooping is look at it as a sector to build an ETF off of? A glance through the Kensho website shows some very narrow sectors, smart borders, wearables. Which would as you touch on overlap heavily with other sectors, so body pick which ones?
Sue Thompson :
We are still very much at the mercy of the fact that these are 40 act structures. So from a regulatory perspective, in order to qualify as a sector, they would actually need to meet diversification requirements and things of that nature. I think one of the coolest things, if you will that's happened is Kensho was recently purchased by none other than S&P, which is obviously, the firm that came up with the original sectors. And so I think it's that marriage that should be interesting because I think that there's a lot that S&P can teach Kensho and vice versa.
Pete Asch:
And that was a great story of innovation there. That's the largest AI transaction in the history of the world. Are you now engaging with S&P more closely on this?
Sue Thompson :
We've partnered, particularly on the select sector SPDRs, we've partnered with S&P and obviously on SPY, on SPY, the first one. So we've been great partners with S&P for 25 plus years. And so I think of this as more, not revolution, but evolution.
Pete Asch:
Since you've describes some of these cross companies as ecosystem providers, how do you weight them as opposed to pure play companies? So a pure smart border company versus a company like Google that may be touching that space.
Sue Thompson :
What I think the Kensho methodology tends to do is it actually looks at how much of Google is focused on autonomous vehicles for example. So it's methodology will slice and dice that and weight it in accordance with, so Google will show up in five or six of the indices that Kensho has. It won't just show up in the composite. That's I think one of the things that we liked about it was that the methodology was strong enough to be able to take these companies like Amazon and Google that are doing multi different things. They might be involved in space. They might be involved in autonomous vehicles. They might be involved in search and AI, and it gives you the opportunity to weight each of those in accordance with the importance within that company.
Pete Asch:
So you've returned to State Street in this year, and you've been presented with this opportunity to bring out these new Kensho SPDR ETFs, but you oversee the entire distribution. What needs to change to add this arrow to your quill?
Sue Thompson :
Yeah. One of the things is obviously making sure that everyone's up to speed on what these technologies are and what they offer. And then really importantly, helping our advisors and investors figure out where do you fit them in a portfolio? Is it a replacement for a different technology exposure? Is it additive? And obviously a lot of that depends on what the investors' goals are and what they're trying to achieve. But I think that's probably the single biggest thing that we have to do in order to prepare the team to really go out and market these effectively.
Pete Asch:
So is State Street Global Advisors one of the companies that are beginning to make all employees have to understand machine learning and AI, not necessarily as experts, but just enough to talk about it?
Sue Thompson :
Yeah. We benefit from the fact that the Kensho guys are just right down the street from us. And so they come in from time to time and they do trainings for us, and we get a deep dive, but I think we're very fortunate in that the average age of our team is actually quite young. And so we have this very enthusiastic group that is eager to dive in and all around where we're, the part of Boston that we're at. We're right down the street from Boston Dynamics, from a couple of different robotics companies. And so it's very much a hotbed of the AI market as is.
Pete Asch:
Is State Street starting to incorporate some of the technology into how they run their business, whether global advisors or the general banking?
Sue Thompson :
Yeah. So as you might be aware, State Street Corporation recently purchased Charles River Development, which is a fairly significant technology purchase. So I would definitely say that when we're looking at the future, we are seeing the need and the desire to get much deeper in advanced technologies. More than that, it's hard to say.
Pete Asch:
Well, after the break, we'll be getting in deeper to the SPDR Kensho ETFs and find out how you at home can invest in the construction of the Starship Enterprise. We'll be back right after this.
Jim Koch :
I'm Jim Koch, brewer of Sam Adams. For 34 years, I've made my Boston Lager inefficiently. The expensive imports, industrial beers made as efficiently as possible. Many use cheap bittering hops, faster fermentation, whatever it takes to drive down costs. But Sam Adams, we brew with 100% heirloom middle frew hops, and lager our beer for over a month. Glorious inefficiency in every sip, aah.
Speaker 4:
The Boston beer can be bust to mass, savor the flavor responsibly.
Pete Asch:
Welcome back. Our guest today is Sue Thompson, executive vice president of State Street Global Advisors and head of SPDR America's distribution. We've been discussing the new economy, the Kensho SPDRs. Last month, the SPDR Kensho new economy's composite ETF, that's ticker symbol, KOMP was launched to provide a broad exposure to companies driving the Fourth Industrial Revolution. Would you describe it as an ETF as a smart SPY or is it still a specific technology sector ETF?
Sue Thompson :
I would describe it more as a specific technology sector ETF, as opposed to a different way of looking at SPY. It will be more heavily tilted to growth than say SPY is. But that said, it is the broadest composite that you'll see that really focuses on the new economy that you can find out in the marketplace.
Pete Asch:
Not all the offerings are as broad, I want to listen to a clip and get your reaction.
Donald Trump:
My administration is reclaiming America's heritage as the world's greatest space faring nation. The essence of the American character is to explore new horizons and to tame new frontiers. But our destiny beyond the earth is not only a matter of national identity, but a matter of national security, so important for our military, so important and people don't talk about it.
Pete Asch:
So that was President Trump announcing the Space Force, something that different sectors took differently, but at State Street you saw it as an opportunity. How big is the global space industry expected to get?
Sue Thompson :
I think it's hard to actually estimate that, because it really depends on how you're defining it in part. Obviously, President Trump was talking about military industrial types of uses that you might find in space. But what I think we all find much more intriguing is this concept of space as a vacation destination. When you ask the average person, "Would you ever consider going on a space occasion if that was not too expensive?" Everybody I know raises their hand and says, "Yeah, I'd love to." Like, "That sounds so cool." Like, "I want to be weightless. I want to see what that feels like. I want to feel like Neil Armstrong."
Pete Asch:
We were speaking the way up here, we're both headed on an airplane after this. So Colorado is great for me, but I think Mars would be interesting. Now people can invest in the possibility of going to space, right?
Sue Thompson :
Yes. That ticker is the XKF, it's supposed to be XK is all of our designators for how we do Kensho. And then FFF is for final frontiers. We did get a little grief on that one for, "Gee, couldn't you have come up with a clever ticker." So try to explain it a little bit.
Pete Asch:
Well, through a certain segment of the population, when they hear final frontier, they know exactly what you're talking about.
Sue Thompson :
Exactly.
Pete Asch:
Speaking of the security that the president did bring up in that clip, perhaps no traditional sector is being transformed more than the security sector as heavy industrials having to make way for these cybersecurity and intelligence vehicles. How is AI changing the economics of defense spending and have the traditional star wars of the defense industry kept up?
Sue Thompson :
I think it's changing it obviously extremely dramatically. When you look at where some of the key concerns are, it is far more around cyber attacks than it is around actual attacks. When you think about how our military is transforming, if you think about what if you could send a robot into battle instead of a human and the lives that you could save.
Sue Thompson :
We've already seen drone technology transform the military. My husband served in the air force for 20 plus years as a pilot. It's fascinating to me to think about an air force that has 1/10th of the pilots that it used to because it's all being drone. Now, my husband, I don't think we'd be a fan of that because he really enjoyed flying, but that's a different matter.
Pete Asch:
Perhaps he could fly a little bit farther away from the front lines.
Sue Thompson :
Exactly.
Pete Asch:
And let the drones go closer. To lighten the mood a little bit, recently a friend of mine actually posted on Twitter that she went to order dominoes, that's NYC ticker DPZ, and a new option popped up on her smartphone. And it was actually captured by another customer that I want to play a little clip of here.
Speaker 5:
It pulls up, Jonie, just pulls up to the iPad, punches his code, yes.
Speaker 6:
You got it.
Speaker 5:
And so he gets the speech read.
Speaker 7:
The Container is open. You can safely remove your order now.
Pete Asch:
So that was a pizza delivery, no human interaction besides punching a code onto an iPad. That was actually from an article, the title of the article was feature is now. Which I thought was very funny because the SPDR Kensho smart mobility ETF uses that tagline. As a novelty, it's fun my friend posted on Twitter. But mobility and autonomous vehicles is expected to make up almost 75% of the automotive industry in just the next 12 years by 2030. Is this where you're seeing that comparison? You mentioned earlier the Apple in 2008 iPhone, is this the space where you're seeing some of those comparisons?
Sue Thompson :
Yeah. Yeah. It was funny, again, I was at a conference, seem to go to a lot of conferences at this time of the year. I was at a conference just yesterday and Mary Barra from GM was speaking and talking about what they're doing in two areas; in the area of autonomous vehicles, but also in the area of zero emissions and going to pure electrical cars.
Sue Thompson :
And I just think this is an area where just as we saw in the Second Industrial Revolution, the railroads transformed everything and we're seeing autonomous vehicles now, the thought of it start to transform. The pizza example is great, but just think about how you go to work on an everyday basis. For me, I pull out my phone, I order my drink from Starbucks, I order up the Uber. By the time the Uber gets me to the Starbucks, it's already ready. So I take my mobile order and I walk up to the office. If I had left my wallet behind no biggie, because all of that is on my phone. If I left my phone behind, I guess at one point I'll have the autonomous vehicle go back and get it.
Pete Asch:
There you go. And by 2030, you won't have to order the Starbucks, it'll know you want the Starbucks before you go.
Sue Thompson :
That's true. Yeah.
Pete Asch:
You mentioned the clean energy, which is another Kensho ETF that State Street offers. How is AI inspired technology transforming infrastructure and what kind of investment will be needed to power this new economy?
Sue Thompson :
Well, we'll need trillions of dollars, right? And if you take a step back and you just think about the internet of things, so devices that connect to the internet. We're expected to have billions and billions of those, and this is not just your Alexa. These are everything from sensors on roads. These are sensors to let you know if there is a water leak somewhere. The amount of energy that we lose or the amount of water that we lose due to water leaks is astonishing in this country.
Sue Thompson :
And yet, if you just had the right sensors in place, you could save millions of gallons a year. So the opportunity for it to transform our infrastructure, you almost can't comprehend it. And of course, we have to. Because if you look at our grid, for example, the electrical grid here in the US, it is in desperate need of updating. So what we have is technology advancing at the same point in time where we have a significant need to update. And to us, that looks a lot like an investment opportunity.
Pete Asch:
And also cross opportunity, because the internet of things, you put all these power grids onto the internet, now you're going to need cybersecurity, now you're going to need that other side. How are these the Kensho ETS being used in conjunction with each other? Is there a way to identify if the ETF, a clean energy one is moving up, that means that we're going to need more of that infrastructure?
Sue Thompson :
Yeah. And we often feel like for people that are just getting started in this, maybe the easiest way to get started is start with the broad composite. Kind of get your feet wet because I think one of the things that we have to remember, especially for some of us that are maybe aren't a millennial, technology brings to mind two things, it's excitement and fear.
Sue Thompson :
And a lot of people when they go to see an advisor for the first time, that's actually the fulcrum upon which they're balancing. They're excited about the future. Maybe they got an inheritance, maybe they got early retirement and they're sitting on a pile of money for the first time. But they're also balancing on that fulcrum of fear where it's like, "What happens if the markets go down? I'm nervous about what this can mean. How do I make sure that I don't live beyond my means?" So we see technology evoking those same emotions. And so we encourage people to work with their advisors when they're starting to think about how do I invest in this. And we also think that sometimes the first thing to do is maybe go broad before you go deep.
Pete Asch:
Do you think that an investor should have a rudimentary understanding of these spaces before they move into it?
Sue Thompson :
It's always helpful to be informed as an investor. And this area is just changing so rapidly that I was joking around with a friend of mine who is huge proponent of investing in this space. And we were saying that publications that we still read are the Wall Street Journal and Scientific American, because you really almost have to stay up with what's going on in the world.
Pete Asch:
And many of your present investors aren't reading any of those traditional medias because they're come from a very different background. Millennial investors who are likely to trust this technology more than your traditional middle age investor are overwhelmingly choosing ETFs as their vehicle choice. Some studies have 91% of millennials will only invest in ETFs. Do you know the profile of who's buying the SPDR Kensho ETFs?
Sue Thompson :
So I think it basically is skewing to two areas. One are advisors that see the benefit of the methodology and they like the aspect of it being forward looking. They like the aspect of it recognizing a trend before the rest of the market. So we definitely have a series of advisors, but then I would say that we are seeing a lot of interest in the millennials. It was really funny because at this conference that I mentioned earlier, we did a whole big presentation on the Fourth Industrial Revolution and what that meant and what does it mean if you're going to live to be 120? How do you think about that?
Sue Thompson :
And the hilarious part for me was afterwards there was this young millennial and he was bringing his dad, so they work together, they're both advisors. He brought his dad to the booth and he was like, "Dad, you got to learn about this." So I do think it's going to skew millennial.
Pete Asch:
Are investors and how should investors be integrating these products into their overall portfolios?
Sue Thompson :
I think first of all, we always encourage investors to work with their advisor. I think that's the first and foremost thing. And recognizing that each investor is different and each investor has their own goals that they're trying to achieve. But we basically see it in a couple of ways. One, you can amplify a current exposure. So if you already have an exposure to technology, this is an opportunity to basically take that technology exposure, overweight it, but with a different methodology.
Sue Thompson :
Another way that we see it is to compliment. So you already, maybe you don't have much of an exposure and you want to take and compliment what you're doing elsewhere in your portfolio with something. And then sometimes, and I don't know whether this is necessarily follows modern portfolio theory, but I do know a lot of advisors that they have a set asset allocation for their clients, but the clients want something fun and cool to talk about. So they keep aside a small bucket of money that is more the let's play around with this. Let's have some fun with it. And so we see advisors being interested in this for that bucket of something fun to talk about.
Pete Asch:
And they definitely hit on the cool factor.
Sue Thompson :
Yeah.
Pete Asch:
We're coming out of October, the return of volatility. With the technology sector under pressure, how did the ETFs do?
Sue Thompson :
Whenever there's volatility in the market, we continue to see advisors and investors flock to the ETF. And I would have to say we're not even sure why that is, but we saw for example, a little bit of weakness if you will, in the Futures market for example. So we saw this migration from people using Futures to people using SPY, generally speaking. When I talk about the volatility in the market, SPY largely becomes the vehicle of choice for a lot of investors as they're navigating through volatility.
Sue Thompson :
And what's just so pleasing for us and not astonishing, because we've seen it over and over again is that the trading just stays steady as a rock. We don't see spreads wide now, we see massive amounts of volume. On a very busy day on the New York Stock Exchange when there's a ton of volatility, you might see ETFs jump from 20 plus percent of the trading volume to 40 plus percent. And yet, you don't see any market disruptions. And we think that is a testament to the strength of the vehicle.
Pete Asch:
So as you wrap up, looking into your crystal ball or maybe consulting Kensho's AI, where are we headed with this? Where is the ETF industry in 10 years?
Sue Thompson :
People always throw around how many trillions it's going to be. We're already at over what, 5 trillion now. It's going to be significant. To some degree, you have to remember the ETF is a wrapper. So what you put under that wrapper can morph and change over time. We have a whole series of ETFs that are active strategies, but that are still in an ETF wrapper. I think we've only started to go down that path. I would say 10 years from now, 20 years from now, I've heard 25 trillion thrown around. I don't know, we'll see.
Pete Asch:
Well, maybe we'll have you come back and I'll come back or maybe the robots that replaced us will come back and have this conversation. Thanks so much Sue for joining us inside the ICE House, that's our conversation for this week. Our guest was Sue Thompson, executive vice president of State Street Global Advisors and head of SPDRs, America's distribution.
Pete Asch:
If you like what you heard, please write us on iTunes so other folks know where to find us. Got a question or a comment you'd like one of our experts to tackle on a future show, email us at [email protected] or tweet us @NYSE. Our show is produced by Ken Abel and Ian Wolf with production assistance from Steven Portner and Teresa DeLuka. I'm Pete Asch, your host signing off from the library of the New York Stock Exchange. Thanks for listening, see you next time.
Speaker 1:
Information contained in this podcast was obtained in part from publicly available sources and not independently verified. Neither is nor its affiliates make any representations or warranties expressed or implied as to the accuracy or completeness of this information and do not sponsor, approve or endorse any of the content hear-in, all of which is presented solely for informational and educational purposes. Nothing hear-in constitutes an offer to sell or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security or recommendation of any security or trading practice.
