Speaker 1:
From the library of the New York Stock Exchange at the corner of Wall and Broad streets in New York city, Your Inside the ICE House, our podcast from Intercontinental Exchange on markets, leadership and vision in global business. The dream drivers that have made the NYSE an indispensable institution for global growth for more than 225 years. Each week, we feature stories of those who hatch plans, create jobs and harness the engine of capitalism right here, right now at the NYSE and ICE's 12 exchanges and seven clearing houses around the world. Now here's your host, Josh King, head of communications at Intercontinental Exchange.
Josh King:
Not everyone who invests at the New York Stock Exchange is buying individual equities, not by a long shot. Think about your own portfolio, no matter how large or small do exchange traded funds or ETFs play a part? Our guests today inside the ICE House first made a name for himself as a massive disruptor in the ETF space in the early 2000s. So much so that he sold his company PowerShares and made a mint. Enough certainly, to while away his days on a Chaise Lounge with a margarita, somewhere south of the border. His name is Bond. Bruce Bond. And he's back now with a sequel innovator capital management. He thinks exactly in the nick of time. As he said, announcing his new business "The ETF is such a capable benefit rich vehicle. There is so much more that can be done. There are so many investor challenges that have gone unsolved for too long."
Josh King:
What are those investor challenges and who is there really to complain, at least given the way the markets have performed over the last nine years? Last year was another record for ETFs globally, and particularly at ICE where 83% of the assets under management in the U.S. are listed on NYSE Arca and the majority of the new exchange traded products choose to list with us. ICE data services also just last year, completed a to acquire more than 5,000 global fixed income currency and commodity indices from bank of America, Merrill Lynch. Now known as the ICE spam index family, the acquisition greatly expanding ICE's index offerings, that function as the underpinning of new and established exchange traded products. So why does Bruce Bond, one of the genuine pioneers of the ETF industry think that there is so much more that can be done in ETFs. And why does he want to do it through innovator capital management rather than as he can sit on a beach? We'll find out in a moment.
Speaker 1:
Inside the ICE House is presented this week by ICE Global Index System or GIS. ICE's index families combine leading reference data, evaluated pricing and analytics along with a track record in index provisioning, spending 50 years to deliver unique cross asset and best in class index solutions.
Josh King:
Bruce Bond and John Southard founded PowerShares 15 years ago at a time when ETFs were in their relative infancy. But even then there was already a competitive landscape being dominated by large financial institutions. The two realize that a solely ETF focused company would be more innovative and nimble to catch the ETF boom we are in today. Our whole focus, Bruce Bond said back in 2005, is on the intelligent ETF. We believe that intelligent ETFs will be wholeheartedly embraced by investors in the future. And when the tipping point occurs, we intend to be prepared. Prepared he was. In 2006, PowerShares was acquired by Invesco. And when Bruce stepped down as the CEO only three years later, the company was the fourth largest provider of ETFs. And maybe some said, "That's the last we hear from Bruce Bond." But he's back at the NYC ringing the bell and sitting down with us here in the library. Welcome to the ICE House Bruce.
Bruce Bond:
Thank you very much. Happy to be here.
Josh King:
Have we reached the tipping point yet?
Bruce Bond:
I don't think we're there yet and we have ways to go.
Josh King:
How did the first beta product arrive?
Bruce Bond:
Well, the first ETFs on the marketplace where launched based on the S&P, the Dow Diamond, the Midcap SPDR and the sector SPDRs, and they were all benchmark ETFs. At that time, the only way to bring an ETF was on an index, a benchmark index. And so there was no way... There were no indexes really that were value add indexes at the time, which are called smart beta today. And back then we called inteldexes or intelligent indexes. And so our idea was since all ETFs are based on indexes, if we want to bring intelligence and an ETF, we have to build a smart index. And that's when we step forward and start to build these quantitatively based indexes that bring value in the index and then replicated those with the ETF.
Josh King:
So we're going to rewind and tell that whole story again, but I want to know, how are your meetings going this week at the NYSE. Who's here, what's your audience, what's your message?
Bruce Bond:
Yeah, well, great. Well, today we here with Investors Business Daily and Investors Business Daily is a huge name. It's been around for a very long time in the investing world. And actually they were one of the pioneers of quantitative analytics a long time ago and launched a whole paper based on this and continue to thrive today. But innovator has come together with investors business daily to introduce some different products based on their research that up to now hasn't had any ETFs based on that. That's called the 50 FFTY which is listed here on the New York Stock Exchange, as well as leaders LDRS. FFTY or the 50 rank stocks within the IBD ranking that have the greatest amount of conviction. And then as-
Josh King:
Conviction based on investors' business daily reporting and their sort of analysis of those companies?
Bruce Bond:
That's correct based on what they call the cans, limb methodology. Methodology was come up with quite a while ago and actually was calculated in real time since 04. And so that performance, that methodology is available to see in the paper over that time period. And what we've done is just taken that methodology, put that into an ETF and made it much more tax efficient, and it made it easier generally just for investors to participate in that process.
Josh King:
And what's leaders based on?
Bruce Bond:
Leaders is based on some very similar methodology to the canceling method. Methodology has a little more momentum based and it's more technical, but it selects ETFs in the market that are showing the greatest promise and the greatest growth potential and puts those into an ETF. So it's actually an ETF of ETFs, but there's as many ETFs as list as securities these days. And so people are trying to figure out which one it I own. And the leader's methodology is really a go-anywhere methodology. It will select whatever ETFs within the market are showing the greatest promise at that given moment. It has a rebalances every month and so it's putting in new ETFs and getting rid of ETFs each month so that people can participate with those and with the IBD.
Josh King:
And if you're trying to talk to an investor and make the case for them, how are they performing against like the S&P generally?
Bruce Bond:
Yeah. I would say generally, they're both doing well. They're both tend to be a little more growthy. So during a growth period, you can expect to see them provide some out performance and during a flat or a more of a value perspective. They may not do it as well, but over time, they've shown great out performance of the market overall.
Josh King:
So Bruce Bond, there really is a tale of two news releases in your life story at least over this century. One is from January 23rd, 2006, and best cap buys you for $60 million upfront, but a whole lot more on a five year earn out. And then there's this one, December 7th, 2017, Bruce Bond and John Southard make industry return. Why was it time to get the old band back together?
Bruce Bond:
Well, that's a good question. I think that PowerShares was a wonderful experience for both John and I, and we feel like we were there at the right time. We brought a lot of value to the market. We participated with Invesco as long as they needed us. And then we decided to step aside and do some other things for a while.
Bruce Bond:
And as we looked at the marketplace, we didn't want to get right back in the ETF world, unless we saw a real opportunity to bring value to people and to investors in ways that they didn't have access, either access to investments or particular methodologies that they couldn't get to a hold off like the IBD methodology that something that people have wanted, but they really didn't have access to. So if we can be bring opportunities like that to people, we wanted to get back into the market. And so we came back, we started with IBD and were continuing down that line to bring some pretty innovative products to the market here over the next several months, we believe.
Josh King:
We ran into each other yesterday morning on the stock exchange floor. It was shortly after you rang the opening bell. It came up that you were born and raised in Baton Rouge. When you were growing up, were financial advisors recommending ETFs to the men and women who owned anything to invest to add to their portfolio, what was it like for you as a kid for your parents and the way they would put money aside and their opportunities? And what were you thinking at the time?
Bruce Bond:
Well, I wasn't thinking anything about money I can tell you that. I mean, growing up down in the south, I was more like playing in the Creek and catching snakes and things like that but my dad always did teach me. His famous saying was, "Cant never did anything." And for a long time, I had trouble understanding that but-
Josh King:
What did he do?
Bruce Bond:
He was actually a PhD chemist and he worked at one of the big petrochemical companies down in Baton Rouge. And I think what he instilled from us very early was, "Can't doesn't get you anywhere." You need to have a can do attitude. And so my life has kind of been that where I have tried a lot of different things and I've kind of been an entrepreneur and willing to grow and to do things that didn't seem necessarily the right way to go every time. But I looked at things a little differently than some other people and have done well by that. And growing up I was a wholesaler originally within the financial industry and kind of grew up through the financial industry that way. And then after Nuveen, I was at Nuveen head of marketing for Nuveen, and then left them to start PowerShares.
Josh King:
How did you get from the Creek to Nuveen? I mean, there's a lot of things that happen in between.
Bruce Bond:
Yeah. It was a long path, you know I-
Josh King:
What was the big break?
Bruce Bond:
Well, the big... What happened was after I graduated from college, I was hired to sell individual bonds to high net worth individuals and banks. Originally, I just started as an assistant to the guy that was head of the retail sales group that did this. And then after six months I started selling bonds and realized I'm adept at this and I understand my name went real well for bond sales, as you can imagine.
Bruce Bond:
And so really grew to love it but what happened was, as I was trying to sell bonds to individuals, I had wholesalers coming in and kind of saying, "Hey, you should sell my product. And this is how my product worked." And I realized that I kind of like this more promoter side of the business rather than the sales side of the business and thought that would be something I would be good at and kind of gravitated toward that through time became a wholesaler. After working hard, I started with a firm called Nike Securities now First Trust and then was hired from there to go work at Nuveen. And then after Nuveen decided they didn't want to do the E... be involved in the ETF business at the time. I left there to get into the ETF business.
Josh King:
So let's talk about the origin of the ETF business itself, because they're commonplace now, but on January 29th, 1993, the first ETF listed on the American stock exchange, which we now know as NYSE American. It was put there in response to a challenge by the SCC in a February 1988 report entitled the October 1987 market break.
Josh King:
And in the text of that report, the SCC said that the creation of a market maker to trade a market basket of stocks would alter the dynamic of program trading. Do you remember when you first became aware of ETFs, whether it was at Nuveen or later, and what did you do to begin to understand its potential not only as a marketable product, but the paradigm shifting effect it would have on all investing?
Bruce Bond:
Yes. I definitely remember it. And the time that it really got on, even though I'd been in the business for a long time, the time it really got on my radar was I was wholesaling down in Florida. I was looking for first trust securities at the time.
Josh King:
Year about?
Bruce Bond:
Yeah, this would've been probably 96.
Josh King:
Yeah.
Bruce Bond:
Somewhere in there and probably 96,97. And that was about when Merrill Lynch launched all the sector SPDRs. And they did that in collaboration with S&P and State street. And I remember somebody at Raymond James actually said, "Hey, did you see these?" I mean, at the time I was selling unit investment trust, which did something very similar, it's a basket of fixed securities. You buy, you hold it for a period of time, but you know, the securities don't change within there really. And so it had some limitations and at the time too, it was all based on... It was kind of all commission driven. It wasn't fee based like we see in a lot of the structures today.
Bruce Bond:
And I thought, "Man, I don't know. That's never really going to take off." There's all kinds of things that come up in the financial industry well. Then when I went to Nuveen and we actually file for the product, got the product, I got a much deeper understanding. In fact, Gary Gaston, who was at the American stock exchange came over and worked for us at Nuveen. And that's when he really educated me and enlightened me to the real benefits of the ETF structure generally. And I realized that this was going to be a tremendous benefit for investors and something that long term would probably get a lot of traction.
Josh King:
And as we're talking about the launch of innovator capital management, it is predicated on not only Bruce Bond, but John Southard, how did the two of you meet and start to found PowerShares?
Bruce Bond:
Yeah, that's a great question. And John and I work together at First Trust and I left and went to Nuveen and he actually got hired by a firm called Chicago Investment Analytics, CIA and not the CIA, but Chicago Investment Analytics. And then CIA was later acquired by Schwab and Schwab utilized that platform that they had. And they were really one of the very first end up quantitative analysis firms in the country. Schwab acquired them to build out their rankings across their platform. That's when there was a lot going on on Wall street about the bankers and research being in cahoots together and or all these issues. And Schwab said we're going to be completely separate from that. We're going to be agnostic. And we're going to use a computer program to tell us which stocks are good and which stocks are bad. John was involved with building what I think they would call the supermodel, which was a model that ranked stocks A, B, C, D, and F.
Bruce Bond:
And like, you don't want to own these and these you probably want to own. And Schwab used those to rank their securities. And as I was thinking about we need to create some intelligent indexes in order to base these ETFs on to bring value. I saw John, he lives in Wheaton where I live and I had worked with him before. And I said, "Hey I'm thinking about starting an ETF company based on smart indexes and designing these indexes." And he's like, "Well I had this new quantitative knowledge that we would be able to put together with that and we could base the ETFs on the indexes we create." And actually what happened was we worked on the research of those and how to actually create the indexes. And we went to the American stock exchange and worked with them. They're the ones who actually calculated the indexes, called them in teledexes, which were later acquired by the New York Stock Exchange. And that's how it all started.
Josh King:
You got to have confidence in abundance to be able to do that Bruce Bond. You are the man who's called the guy behind the intelligent ETF revolution. What made you so sure you could compete with the other providers and what spaces did you move into that the larger firms had ignored or missed?
Bruce Bond:
What we did initially was the two first funds we brought. One was called the dynamic market portfolio. And the other one was called the dynamic OTC portfolio. And one really ran at the S&P 500. And it said, if we can just provide slight enhancement over the S&P 500 and ATF, we should be able to track a lot of assets. And then the other one ran the OTC, ran at the NASDAQ 100, the two biggest ETFs at the time and said, people that are participating in these beta indexes, if we can give them some smart beta to participate in, that's something they would be interested in and we think we could attract assets.
Bruce Bond:
So really the way we thought about it was there's billions flowing toward of these. We're going to dive into the deepest part of the pool, try to convince some people or help other people understand. Here are the benefits to this. You might want to allocate just a portion of your assets. You don't need to allocate them all, but allocate a portion and see how it goes. And then if you like what you see in the performance, then you can allocate more later and that's kind of how it started and it just grew from there.
Josh King:
Yeah. From those small beginnings, I mean, under your guidance, PowerShares offered investors access to investments, such as commodities, microcaps, index based trading that were previously restricted only to these very sophisticated traders. How were you able to sell these ID is to an investing public that said, "I just want to own IBM and Johnson and Johnson."
Bruce Bond:
Right. Well, it was really difficult in the early days you can imagine. I mean, our two biggest competitors were State street, Barclays, Vanguard, I mean the biggest indexers in the world. And so it was truly a David and Goliath. And you had us out there trying to convince people that, "Look, there's a better way to think about this and to look at this." And I'll never forget. I mean PowerShares wasn't a name that was known anywhere in the industry. And really at the time ETFs were something that people really didn't understand.
Bruce Bond:
I mean, they might have owned the SPDR or the Qs, but they were like, "I don't know what these are." I mean, we just buy them because they give us exposure. Our job was really to explain, "Well, this is how they work and this is why they're beneficial for all types of areas." And then the last thing was that was tough for us at the time was, who's behind your firm. You know, they were expecting our Merrill Lynch or you know, someone like this, but I did some whole selling myself then because I was experienced at that. And I said, "Well, you're kind of looking at it."
Josh King:
It's just us in Wheaton, Illinois. Man.
Bruce Bond:
Yeah. It does me I'm out there making it happen. I mean it was really a ground zero up endeavor and people love... This is the thing I love about the United States is people love to be affiliated with someone that's trying to work hard and has a good idea and they will get behind you. And so people that participated with us earlier still love PowerShares and love what we tried to do and like being part of the whole win.
Josh King:
I mean, even today, there's no shortage of advertising for ETFs. What's your thought for general investors who would look for instance over the last few months and said there's that fund that invests in the Vics at an inverse proportion? What should I do with that? I mean, a lot of people got burned over the last few weeks.
Bruce Bond:
Yeah. Yeah. I know. And it's really unfortunate. I think that there are situations in that we had... Remember the flash crash a while back too, and there were some fixed in income ETFs that were trading at the time that kind of, at the time, really seemed dislocated from the market. But then as you real... What really happened and I think today some of these fixed income ETS are a better proxy than the underlying pricing services because they're actively traded and sold. And so where the price is is really a better price than what can be derived and other means.
Bruce Bond:
What happened with the VIX or XIV is really disappointing, and I think that some of these inverse products, I would just say for anyone, investing in ETFs, it's very important to understand what you own and the potential for what that can do especially if it's inverse and if it has leverage that it has a tendency to move very quickly. And if you're not a professional, you should be doubly careful to understand your allocation to that and can it go to zero? And the other thing I would say along those lines is that when an industry is growing up, like the ETF industry is and will continue, I think, here for the foreseeable future, you're going to have issues like this.
Bruce Bond:
I mean, it's impossible to have a situation where billions and billions of dollars with thousands of funds are going or being introduced into the market where you don't have some hiccups. Generally, I would say that the ETF industry has done well. If you look at it on a broad brush of how many assets have moved into it, how well it's provided for the underlying investors, the tax situation that it puts people in. I think that considering some of the old chassis like a mutual fund in that it really delivers benefits that are beneficial to 99% of the investors.
Josh King:
If you're a person who is looking at their portfolio with large chunks and individual equities or the old chassis of mutual funds, and you say it's about time that I start to shift a big piece of this, or a piece of this into ETFs, what are the first moves people should make?
Bruce Bond:
I find that a lot of investors like to invest thematically and whether it be buying one of the IBD funds because they think that is good, or if they're interested in robotics or if they're interested in healthcare or whatever it might be. A lot of people like to look forward and the nice thing about the number of ETFs that are available, there's probably one out there that will fit what you're looking for. Battery technology, solar technology, clean energy. I mean, the gamut is wide and the good news too, is that a lot of these do have some good performance history out there. So you can put that up very easily at home, on a chart and take a look at it and say, "Yeah. I think this makes sense for me." You can look at the underlying holding. One of the beauties of an ETF is the transparency. There's nothing really hidden in there. You can look at the securities you own and most definitely on the equity side, know what you have and feel comfortable about that.
Josh King:
In only a few short years, Bruce Bond's PowerShares disrupted the ETF market and grew enough to catch the attention of Invesco who purchased the company. After Invesco bought PowerShares, Bruce stayed on to lead it for a few more years and helped to continue to grow its assets under management. After the break, we talked to Bruce about his decision to get back into the ATF Grid Iron with innovator capital management.
Speaker 1:
GIS provides access to top level and constituent data with a complete universes of ICE's bam or bond index and convertible index families. GIS has extensive functionality that allows you to view and download current and historical performance data and statistics. With the customization tools on the site, you can analyze relative value of individual bonds, sectors, and indices. Visit the ice.com/indices for more information.
Josh King:
Back now with Bruce Bond of Innovator Capital Management. Bruce in 2009, he left Invesco PowerShares and took a break from the ETF world. It was right after the worst of the financial crisis, but the beginning of a huge bull market. So why did you get out and how did you spend your time since then?
Bruce Bond:
Well we have a farm up in Northwest Illinois. So I spent a lot of time on the farm doing different things there and planting and harvesting and all the things that go along with the farm. And we built a place there for the family to be able to stay in. So I spent some time doing that and then there's some things that I gave my time to other endeavors. There's some Chicago based firms that help kids in Chicago and that, so we spent some time with them as well. We have a foundation called the Bond Family Foundation and we used that to try to support local charities. So I spent my time really with those types of things and my family, and-
Josh King:
As you're tilling the soil or the gears starting to turn in your head for the future?
Bruce Bond:
Yeah. You know, I mean, there definitely was. And I think that there was always an interest in getting back in as long as we felt like there was a real opportunity and another area for us to bring value. It didn't... We realized that the market... That there had been thousands of ETFs come to market, even since we had been out. And the market had really developed since we had been there.
Josh King:
We'll keep our eyes focused on Oakland this fall to see if that super bowl winning coach Jon Gruden can have a successful second act in the incredibly different and difficult world of coaching a football team. In the ETF space what makes you think that you can hop back into this game in a business that has changed so much since you were winning the super bowl PowerShares?
Bruce Bond:
Well, the that's a great question and we don't come back in lightly. And you have to believe that you have some ideas that are unique to the space that aren't currently available and you have to have as well, you have to have enough capital to have staying power. I think one of the most important things in the financial space is that to bring out some products and not have enough capital to stay afloat for a few years is tough because you're trying to talk people into giving you hundreds of millions or billions of dollars and they need to know you're going to be around.
Bruce Bond:
And so I think those are the key things to make sure that you have put away and you understand the industry of what you're getting into. And we know it's a difficult road, but we're excited to be on it.
Josh King:
The ETF industry, I think, is about 20 times larger now than when you started PowerShares. So what lessons from 2002, when you came in the first time, that is going to be so crucial to the way you are going to start Innovator Capital?
Bruce Bond:
Yeah. I think the important thing and probably what we bring to the table... I think what ultimately we all bring to the table is our reputation and how people feel about dealing with you and in our industry is no different because ETFs really are made of relationships. They're based on indexes or are calculated by other people. And as well as we have to deal with the exchange and work with the exchange to list the products and so all these things come together. There's a lot of partnerships that come together to make an ETF work. And so I think that's number one. Number two, I think that in order to introduce products that people want, that they don't already have access to, you have to be a very creative financial mind, and you have to be willing to also take some chances here and there to introduce things that aren't in the market, but that you have a strong belief can attract assets.
Josh King:
You mentioned capital. The big firms have massive advertising budgets. They're putting golf tournaments attached to their name. How do you penetrate into consciousness when the big firms your competitors have so dominated the branding landscape? How do you brand a new ETF into the landscape?
Bruce Bond:
It's hard to do. I think first off is that typically a firm like Innovator, we're not looking to get retail branding, knowledge of people. We start with the investor investment professionals, we work with them so that they understand what we do. And once they understand what we do, that it tends to spread out from there. So you have to start slowly. It's definitely not one of these things where you want to go out and spend a lot of money, trying to get brand recognition from a retail perspective. We've seen several new products come out this last year, that rushed up to a billion dollars, brought out by small firms. And it's because it's a particular idea at a particular time that was in high demand. And there was a lot of dollars looking to get involved, invested in that type of exposure. And I think the market will continue along those lines.
Josh King:
The announcement for innovator capital management came out in December. The return of volatility in the marketplace, sort of has been a news story of January and February. It's caused some to wonder what the role of ETFs might have played in the return of volatility of the market. I want to hear a little clip from the NYC's president, Tom Farley, and get your reaction on to that on the other side.
Tom Farley:
Our ETFs distorting the market, distorting prices and creating massive liquidity risks.
Speaker 5:
The ETF industry is a force for good. It's allowing millions of people to have low cost access and exposure to assets and asset classes that they otherwise would not have had. It's an industry that continues to evolve. It continues to improve. When I started college, there was no ETF industry. In the last year. We've added about a trillion dollars of assets to this industry. Not quite, but close. And by and large, those assets are low cost and more efficient than the investments that they replaced.
Josh King:
The relationship between the ETF industry and volatility.
Bruce Bond:
Yeah. I mean, I tend to agree with him 100%. I mean, I think that ETFs by and large are made up of the liquidity of the underlying investments and therefore they don't introduce any additional volatility in the market than would otherwise be there. What they do is they give people the opportunity to get diversified exposures to these different groups of securities. And so that's on the equity side and on the fixed income side.
Bruce Bond:
I think what happens in fixed income and in some of the other areas, I mean, you have exposure to areas that tend to be more gray and not relatively priced. And now you have a price instantly that people can trade on. So, I mean, I wouldn't recommend that any investors try to jump in or out during one of these huge spike volatile days. I mean, it's all over the place. And if you're a long term investor, I wouldn't recommend that at all. If you're a trader I mean, spreads will widen. You will pay more during those markets. It just happens. And so I would recommend people to look at things through time and to pick their spots, to get in and get out. And to... When they look to trade on the market to do that smart.
Josh King:
You've seen a lot in your career. Where do you see the ATF industry in five or 10 years?
Bruce Bond:
I think way back when I was really active in the business years ago, I said that ETFs were going to completely change the landscape out of investing. And I think that we've seen that by and large and the amount of volume that they have on the exchanges today, they make up a large part of the volume. And I think more and more even individual investors are looking to use ETFs for their personal use. I think that the mutual fund industry is going to continue to be under pressure to deliver value to investors.
Bruce Bond:
And to the degree that they're not able to do that, we're going to continue to see a majority of the assets move to the ETF side and them to be under continued pressure. And so I see a lot of assets continuing toward the ETF business and so I would say generally we're still early in the game there. And ultimately I think that we're going to see additional innovations come of different types of exchange, listed products that people can use to invest their money in a more efficient manner.
Josh King:
Mr. Bond is back. Bruce Bond, CEO of Innovator Capital Management. I know you've had a busy agenda here at the New York Stock Exchange the last few days. Thanks for spending a few minutes with us here in the ICE House.
Bruce Bond:
Yeah. Thank you very much for having me.
Josh King:
That's our conversation for this week. Our guest was Bruce Bond, co-founder and CEO of Innovator Capital Management. If you like what you heard, we only have one request, it's really important. Please rate us on iTunes, give us a review so other folks know where to find us. It's really the easiest thing you can do to help support the show.
Josh King:
And if you've got a comment or a question that you'd like one of our experts to tackle on a future show, email us at [email protected] or tweet at us, @NYSE. Our show is produced by Pete Ash and Ian Wolf with production assistants from Ken Abel and Steven Portner. I'm Josh King, your host signing off from the library of the New York Stock Exchange. Thanks for listening. See you next week.
Speaker 1:
Information contained in this podcast was obtained in part from publicly available sources and not independently verified. Neither ICE nor its affiliates, make any representations or warranties express or implied as to the accuracy or completeness of this information and do not sponsor, approve or endorse any of the content herein, all of which is presented solely for informational and educational purposes. Nothing herein constitutes an offer to sell or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security or recommendation of any security or trading practice.
